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Originally Posted by Icu
The only thing he's not tolerating is factual incorrectness. The irony is that you are the one making personal attacks, not him. The earth revolves around the sun. If someone wants to say otherwise great but I am totally justified in pointing out the facts. And I don't really think calling me intollerant for doing so is justified.
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Exactly - I would also add that it is the duty of that person to try and prove if if they want to be taken seriously, and find a provable method that also invalidates all the literal centuries of research proving the opposite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika
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So, in other words, yes, pure water.
The equivalent concentration of active ingredient is around the same as a single pixel on a monitor in the entire solar system (~8.8 trillion square miles).
http://rationalwiki.org/w/images/3/31/Magnitude.svg
To demonstrate orders of magnitude, the area of the largest square in this diagram is only 5 orders greater than that of a single pixel. A square that was 10^6 larger would be just under the size of the average computer screen. By 10^15, it would be 1 square kilometer and by 10^20 it would be the surface area of the Earth. 10^28 would be a disc the area of the Earth's orbit...[5] So imagine that one pixel on an image the size of the solar system and we're talking homeopathic dilution.
The methodology is also flawed since it is very specific about 'shake X times', yet person A's n shakes might be equivalent to person B's 2n shakes, or person C's 0.33n shakes.
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Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto
Actually, I think drug company profiteering is definitely relevant to this topic. Being snake-oil salesman/profiteers is a claim often lobbied against homeopathists, I think it is only fair to point out that the medical establishment is capable of this same behavior.
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I wouldn't say they have no negative practices, yet they still undeniably sell products that do work. Stop
poisoning the well.
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I think it's also important to point out that homeopathy, holistic, traditional, and natural medicine are four separate things. The first is the most "New Age" (in a non-derogatory meaning), holistic is somewhere in between, and...well, traditional and natural medicine are as old as humanity (maybe even older, as animals have been observed self-medicating before).
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...and I'd agree with you there, but that has nothing to do with your previous point. Homeopathy is not the same as using plants with documented medical effects in therapeutic doses (which is much older, being in some cases older than recorded history). Such things, while sometimes not as effective in pure strength or elimination of associated conditions/symptoms, are viable treatments for some conditions. Unlike homeopathy, they still contain active ingredients, in some cases the
same one as mass produced pharmaceuticals, or an
isomer (similar structure, same actual chemical composition, same effect) of it.
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Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan
I'm not sure that the kind of principles holistic medicine relies on is just 'pure water'... For a lot of the remedies, they contain naturally occuring substances like vitamin c or zinc that encourages the body's natural defence mechanisms.
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Sure, but that's 'holistic', not homeopathic. Different things, especially since when disease becomes apparent, it is typically when the immune system is compromised or overwhelmed, so it's past the point that vitamins can do anything alone. Good for prevention, not good for treatment.