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  #16  
Old 11-14-2010, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by neytirifanboy View Post
That is generally my view too. His pre-emptive raid was meant to at least partly prevent an imminent and overwhelming attack.

In saying that, he does have a panache for big explosions and over-reaction.

During the attack on home tree, after launching cannon-ball like gass canisters at the Na'vi, the Na'vi respond with some archery. Despite the fact that the arrows were causing no material damage, Quaritch decides to escalate the action by giving a further warning shot with....er...incendiaries which they fire right into the middle of the na'vi.

what I fing interesting is that they did not even bother using a mircophone asking the na'vi to move or surrender. I am sure he could have played a tape in Na'vi telling them to move. Surely before ordering a full incendiary attackn there were other options:
1) Avatars (i.e Jake and Grace)
2) Microphones warning
3) Warning shots.
4) Gas
5) Limited demonstration of incendiaries away from the Na'vi

But no, Quaritch goes from point 1 to point 4 then directly to point 10. As I say, he loves explosions and is a master of over-reaction.
Or, more likely, because he's stupid.

He didn't even do his job. Remember 'my job is to keep you alive'?
His attack was clearly not meant to be any kind of defensive move, because he would have done it anyway, he just did it as son as he could because the Na'vi were about to come to Hell's gate and kill him.

There really is no reason to like him, at all.
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2010, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
Or, more likely, because he's stupid.

He didn't even do his job. Remember 'my job is to keep you alive'?
Yep, and THEN he says, "I will not succeed." He can't, because Pandora is that hostile to the humans. He'll lose choppers to the Banshees and Toruks, and there isn't anything he can do about it.

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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
His attack was clearly not meant to be any kind of defensive move, because he would have done it anyway, he just did it as son as he could because the Na'vi were about to come to Hell's gate and kill him.
That, um, would be the reason why the move is defensive. The best defence is to attack. Particularly in those circumstances.

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There really is no reason to like him, at all.
Of course there is, I just listed them. You are welcome to disagree, naturally, but I personally think there are perfectly valid reasons for liking him.
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2010, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
Or, more likely, because he's stupid.
I don't believe he is stupid. In fact I think Quaritch is quite a complex character hidden under a cliched shell.

In fact there are aspects of Quaritch that remind me of JR Ewing of the Dallas series as he was arrogantt, cruel and opportunistic.

it is difficult to call him stupid when his tactic almost paid off. Only the intervention of Eywa (which even the Na'vi wouldn't have forseen) resulted in the RDA defeat.

Of course, whether his plan would have paid of on a strategic level, both military and political, is a different matter.
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2010, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashen Key View Post
Yep, and THEN he says, "I will not succeed." He can't, because Pandora is that hostile to the humans. He'll lose choppers to the Banshees and Toruks, and there isn't anything he can do about it.
Could have certainly avoided getting every last marine killed bar the 2 or 3 we see getting onto the shuttle (presumable the ones who were left at Hell's Gate). He said he will not succeed with EVERYONE, not that he wouldn't try.

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That, um, would be the reason why the move is defensive. The best defence is to attack. Particularly in those circumstances.
Strategy didn't even come into it because he was only focussed on revenge.

Quote:
Of course there is, I just listed them. You are welcome to disagree, naturally, but I personally think there are perfectly valid reasons for liking him.
Again, I disagree. Simply catching fire does not make a good character
The truth is, he's extremely cliched, not that well written, possibly one of the least complicated/interesting characters I have ever seen (a HUGE contrast to Jake, Grace, Neytiri, Norm, Mo'at and the others) and ends up simply doing things for no real reason than for the sake be being evil. Since you like linking tvtropes (aka 'let's insult every series/movie/game as we can'), have Obviously Evil - Television Tropes & Idioms . Also, an almost perfect page is Motive Decay - Television Tropes & Idioms (not to mention Draco In Leather Pants - Television Tropes & Idioms )

Quote:
Originally Posted by neytirifanboy View Post
I don't believe he is stupid. In fact I think Quaritch is quite a complex character hidden under a cliched shell.

In fact there are aspects of Quaritch that remind me of JR Ewing of the Dallas series as he was arrogantt, cruel and opportunistic.

it is difficult to call him stupid when his tactic almost paid off. Only the intervention of Eywa (which even the Na'vi wouldn't have forseen) resulted in the RDA defeat.

Of course, whether his plan would have paid of on a strategic level, both military and political, is a different matter.
All of which he should have foreseen. He knew the Na'vi were better than the marines and outnumbered them. He heard Grace explain about the interconnectedness. He heard Jake say that they would never give up. He willingly ordered everyone into a suicide mission.
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  #20  
Old 11-14-2010, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
All of which he should have foreseen. He knew the Na'vi were better than the marines and outnumbered them. He heard Grace explain about the interconnectedness. He heard Jake say that they would never give up. He willingly ordered everyone into a suicide mission.
To be fair, doing nothing and allowing the Na'vi forces to grow tenfold to 20,000 warriors would've been pretty suicidal too.
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Selected writings:

You came back
How do you make up after you've done the unforgivable? Jake and Neytiri have a conversation in the wake of Hometree's destruction, during their first real moment alone following his return as Toruk Makto.

The Last Train Home
Fourteen years after the war, a lone spaceship appears in the sky. The former members of the Avatar program watch its approach – expecting the worst, fearing for their adopted home. Then the ship lands. And suddenly, nothing makes sense anymore.

Five seconds too late
This is a different kind of Jake/Neytiri romance, the story that would've unfolded had she been delayed for just five seconds while trying to reach him following the fight with Quaritch.
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  #21  
Old 11-14-2010, 10:02 PM
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The Na'vi technically aren't better fighters than the marines are. Jake bested Tsu'tey. Quaritch bested Neytiri. The marines on the ground bested the Na'vi direhorse riders with ease. I think it's pretty clear how superior the marines are in their warfare tactics. They were incredibly outbumbered, yet won against them in the first wave. It was only deus ex machina that saved the Na'vi. Without Eywa, the Na'vi didn't have a chance.

Not to say I'm on the mercenaries' side or anything (that I can bet a billion bucks that a certain person is going to accuse me of if I didn't write this current sentence ), but Quaritch isn't that dumb a guy.
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  #22  
Old 11-14-2010, 11:28 PM
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Which still doesn't change the fact that the Na'vi are better. That's the entire point of how the marines have to use technology. Ironically, the Na'vi could have been FAR more effective against the Scorpions if they had used proper tactics (something the 'Tom couldn't have done it' people conveniently forget too). Neither of which even go anywhere near my point, that the Na'vi are physically better and more intelligent. That's the REASON the marines have to use so much technology. Certainly not a deus ex machina either, if you were at all paying attention then you'd have expected it
Also, Neytiri could have easily defeated Quaritch if she wasn't forced to protect the link.
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  #23  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
Jake bested Tsu'tey. Quaritch bested Neytiri. The marines on the ground bested the Na'vi direhorse riders with ease. I think it's pretty clear how superior the marines are in their warfare tactics. They were incredibly outbumbered, yet won against them in the first wave. It was only deus ex machina that saved the Na'vi. Without Eywa, the Na'vi didn't have a chance.
I am so with you on this one, brother.
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  #24  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
The Na'vi technically aren't better fighters than the marines are. Jake bested Tsu'tey. Quaritch bested Neytiri. The marines on the ground bested the Na'vi direhorse riders with ease. I think it's pretty clear how superior the marines are in their warfare tactics. They were incredibly outbumbered, yet won against them in the first wave. It was only deus ex machina that saved the Na'vi. Without Eywa, the Na'vi didn't have a chance.

Not to say I'm on the mercenaries' side or anything (that I can bet a billion bucks that a certain person is going to accuse me of if I didn't write this current sentence ), but Quaritch isn't that dumb a guy.
Mowing down a stupid cavalry charge with automatic weapons isn't exactly strategic genius...

((I mean, c'mon, I could even plot/execute that))
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  #25  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Aihwa View Post
Mowing down a stupid cavalry charge with automatic weapons isn't exactly strategic genius...

((I mean, c'mon, I could even plot/execute that))
No, but CHARGING said automatic weapons is stupid. And Jake, as ex-Marine Special Forces (which is what First Recon IS) really should have known that.
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  #26  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ashen Key View Post
No, but CHARGING said automatic weapons is stupid. And Jake, as ex-Marine Special Forces (which is what First Recon IS) really should have known that.

Quarich is the only one who claimed "first recon", and I really think he meant it in the more literal sense, as he came to pandora as a merc not a US marine.
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  #27  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Aihwa View Post
Quarich is the only one who claimed "first recon", and I really think he meant it in the more literal sense, as he came to pandora as a merc not a US marine.
"I pulled your record, Corporal. I was First Recon myself. Few years ahead of you. Maybe more than a few."

To me, that is pretty clearly saying that Quaritch used to be in First Recon, and so was Jake. They are BOTH former US Marines, from the same battalion.
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  #28  
Old 11-15-2010, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ashen Key View Post
"I pulled your record, Corporal. I was First Recon myself. Few years ahead of you. Maybe more than a few."

To me, that is pretty clearly saying that Quaritch used to be in First Recon, and so was Jake. They are BOTH former US Marines, from the same battalion.

Hmmm, I suppose that's another way to interpret it.
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  #29  
Old 11-15-2010, 11:35 PM
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Yep. Jake had no clue about strategy. Even the ikran attack was badly done, it was initially successful but he had nobody to cover them while they then climbed for a second attack.
Still doesn't change the fact that the Na'vi ARE better than the marines, which is exactly why the marines use so much technology.
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  #30  
Old 11-15-2010, 11:52 PM
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I don't know whether or not i'm a Quaritch fan. Mainly because when my friends write silly Avatar fic's i always get him as my father...o.o but i do like a strong male role that has a badass attitude and some aggression
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