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  #61  
Old 12-03-2010, 03:21 PM
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As far as I understood it, their target was the Tree of Souls for the simple reason that destroying it would severely damage the Na'vi culture - remember, leading up to the attack, the RDA don't believe in any connection of the trees or Eywa. As I saw it, the Na'vi were the prime target, and the rest of the creatures were just dangerous hazards, not opponents.

Also...um, where did you get that the Tree of Souls was central to ALL life? I certainly didn't pick that up - I thought it was important only in that one area.
What they thought didn't change the specifics of the battle. They underestimated the significance, and as such, underestimated the opposition.
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  #62  
Old 12-03-2010, 03:30 PM
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What they thought didn't change the specifics of the battle. They underestimated the significance, and as such, underestimated the opposition.
This doesn't really answer me *g* They were not after Eywa, but the Na'vi - that was their designated target, no matter what else happened. To say that they were after everything is blurring their motivation and intentions. Which is of course different from what actually went down, but it's still important.

And like I said, I AM curious as to where the Tree of Souls is central to Pandora as a whole - I mean, I am a writer in this fandom, and I'm RPing a pre-canon Trudy, so if I've missed something canonical, I'd like to know?
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  #63  
Old 12-03-2010, 03:35 PM
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This doesn't really answer me *g* They were not after Eywa, but the Na'vi - that was their designated target, no matter what else happened. To say that they were after everything is blurring their motivation and intentions. Which is of course different from what actually went down, but it's still important.

And like I said, I AM curious as to where the Tree of Souls is central to Pandora as a whole - I mean, I am a writer in this fandom, and I'm RPing a pre-canon Trudy, so if I've missed something canonical, I'd like to know?
Well, the Tree Of Souls is the central point for the most connections of the network that forms Eywa. That is what I meant, sorry if you misunderstood.

It doesn't matter if the marines didn't know the significance, it doesn't change the nature of what they attacked. they didn't know that all of the life on Pandora would defend it, that doesn't change the fact that they are capable of doing that.
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  #64  
Old 12-03-2010, 03:40 PM
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Well, the Tree Of Souls is the central point for the most connections of the network that forms Eywa. That is what I meant, sorry if you misunderstood.
The fact that's it, uh, 1:36am prooooooooobably isn't helping with understanding things, no. <_< But okay, I see what you mean now! I tend to view it differently - I see the Tree of Souls being but one (although highly important) centre-point of connections over the planet/moon - but I get where you are coming from.

And yes, I KNOW that the capabilities of the planet are different from what the Marines thought - that isn't my point. My point is the Marines' INTENTIONS were just about the Na'vi, so to say that everything was a target is...well, I'm not sure where you are getting this from. Certainly it didn't factor into planning, which is where intentions are set down. Then everything attacked, and THEN everything was a target.
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  #65  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Ashen Key
With all due respect, the United States Marine Corps aren't the only Marines on the planet, and by no means does 'Marines' always mean 'USMC'. I am sorry that you take offence to this, but it is a common term for soldiers who have a naval/science-fiction space-ship slant to them. The Marines in Aliens weren't USMC, either, but they were still Marines. We in Avatar fandom wouldn't have taken to calling the RDA Marines just on a whim, but it's part of who they are. They are SPACE Marines. And regardless of whether you regard them as 'proper Marines', they are clearly still soldiers. Soldiers are professional, and the Marines hired by the RDA for their own private army (which is, let us not forget, bound by the UN NOT to have any nukes, so they clearly are professional enough to do battle with other professional armies) are...well, professional.
Despite my mention of the USMC, I speaking for most of the modern professional military forces. But I do see your point.
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  #66  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:33 AM
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The RDA was attempting to destroy the tree of souls so they could weaken Na'vi morale, and they honestly believed that Eywa wasn't real. That was their only misunderstanding as far as their tactics went. Everything else worked out fine for them.

Regarding black-ops, military work/marines, etc. etc., there's no denying that the marine mercenaries depicted in Avatar were American. The question remains, however, were they really meant to be depicted as mercenaries, or as a mirror to American marines of today?

Two answers to that:

1) Think "The Rock". Perfect example of marines-turned-mercenaries, and what being a mercenary can do to your judgment. Anyone who has seen this movie knows exactly what I'm talking about. To quote the film,

Quote:
Captain Darrow: Excuse me, general... but what about the f***ing money?

General Hummel: There is no f***ing money. Mission's over.

Captain Frye: Bullsh*t it's over!

Major Tom Baxter: You're talking to a General, soldier! Maintain discipline.

Captain Darrow: I'm not a soldier, Major. The day we took hostages, we became mercenaries. And mercenaries get paid. I want my F***ING money!
That^ is how we should regard the marine-mercenaries in Avatar. They aren't what we should regard as real marines with honor. They're just "hired guns".


2) This article is what Cameron intended people to see when watching the mercenaries in Avatar. The article effectively refutes all claims that Cameron tried to make the American military out to be "evil".
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  #67  
Old 12-04-2010, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
The RDA was attempting to destroy the tree of souls so they could weaken Na'vi morale, and they honestly believed that Eywa wasn't real. That was their only misunderstanding as far as their tactics went. Everything else worked out fine for them.
Yet again... misunderstanding something does not ACTUALLY change the nature of it.

Quote:
Regarding black-ops, military work/marines, etc. etc., there's no denying that the marine mercenaries depicted in Avatar were American. The question remains, however, were they really meant to be depicted as mercenaries, or as a mirror to American marines of today?
Based on the 4 (that I can think of off the tip of my head) that actually spoke?
It doesn't matter which they were (or neither), the message is still that overuse of militaries of ANY kind is bad for all people in the end.

Quote:
Two answers to that:

1) Think "The Rock". Perfect example of marines-turned-mercenaries, and what being a mercenary can do to your judgment. Anyone who has seen this movie knows exactly what I'm talking about. To quote the film,



That^ is how we should regard the marine-mercenaries in Avatar. They aren't what we should regard as real marines with honor. They're just "hired guns".
Again... the US isn't that big or important. They aren't the only people with a group called 'marines'. Not to mention how marines is a VERY common term in scifi for similar people.

Quote:
2) This article is what Cameron intended people to see when watching the mercenaries in Avatar. The article effectively refutes all claims that Cameron tried to make the American military out to be "evil".
Did I ever say he did? No. All I said was that they were not explicitly not marines.
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  #68  
Old 03-08-2012, 05:07 PM
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Default Quaritch and Lang's other role, Taylor

Well, no one has updated this thread with any discussion of Stephen Lang's other role, Commander Nathaniel Taylor on Terra Nova. What is really interesting is that Taylor and Quaritch are almost exactly the same character- Taylor is every bit the badass soldier that Quaritch was. But there is one essential difference; while Taylor is a good guy, who fights against the resource-exploiters in 2149 to preserve Terra Nova, Quaritch is very, very, very bad.
Lang manages to portray Taylor as exactly the kind of guy you'd want to be in charge of protecting your family. Even the incredibly sweet little Maddie Shannon gives him a big hug, just to make him feel better. He spent several months alone on Terra Nova, before anyone else was there, fighting off carnataurs and slashers that would probably fit right in on Pandora. It's almost like being the only human on a breathable Pandora (minus the Na'vi).
While Quaritch got his stripes in Nigeria, for Taylor it was Somalia. In a way, you kind of wonder if the writers on Terra Nova specifically copied-and-pasted Quaritch onto Taylor, and then performed a dark-side-of-the-force-ectomy.
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  #69  
Old 03-08-2012, 09:36 PM
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Actually, I think that says something for Stephen Lang as an actor. I imagine it would be weird to play a character like this so soon after Avatar, which is so similar but also so fundamentally different. Cool stuff
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  #70  
Old 03-08-2012, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by joeylovesgaia View Post
The fact that so many rooted for Quaritch (and more are likely to root for him in the special ed.) is disturbing. Apparently Cameron failed to truly show the horror of being invaded. If the Na'vi were human size, he and his men could be shown molesting the native women; if there were less mining tech, the Company could be shown using the Na'vi as slaves. This is the true history of colonization, and if the RDA jerks were shown doing it, all sympathy for them would go out the window...I hope.

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  #71  
Old 03-09-2012, 12:47 AM
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I haven't been that interested in Terra Nova (humans and dinosaurs? Awkward reference right there ), but it's very common for an actor to get typecast to their most successful role.
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  #72  
Old 03-09-2012, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujubees View Post
Well, no one has updated this thread with any discussion of Stephen Lang's other role, Commander Nathaniel Taylor on Terra Nova. What is really interesting is that Taylor and Quaritch are almost exactly the same character- Taylor is every bit the badass soldier that Quaritch was. But there is one essential difference; while Taylor is a good guy, who fights against the resource-exploiters in 2149 to preserve Terra Nova, Quaritch is very, very, very bad.
Lang manages to portray Taylor as exactly the kind of guy you'd want to be in charge of protecting your family. Even the incredibly sweet little Maddie Shannon gives him a big hug, just to make him feel better. He spent several months alone on Terra Nova, before anyone else was there, fighting off carnataurs and slashers that would probably fit right in on Pandora. It's almost like being the only human on a breathable Pandora (minus the Na'vi).
While Quaritch got his stripes in Nigeria, for Taylor it was Somalia. In a way, you kind of wonder if the writers on Terra Nova specifically copied-and-pasted Quaritch onto Taylor, and then performed a dark-side-of-the-force-ectomy.
From what you've said, they sound like they could be the same character; the difference being that in Avatar, the perspective has been switched to make us sympathize with the Na'vi, not the humans.
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  #73  
Old 03-10-2012, 10:07 PM
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^That's actually how it feels. Taylor is/was(its cancelled) 'shifty' and I never really trusted him.
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  #74  
Old 03-14-2012, 07:43 AM
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Terra Nova was a little weird to watch because I always kept saying Quaritch and could barely remember he was called Taylor. No disrespect to Stephen Lang, I think he's a great actor. I'm not surprised it was cancelled though, I heard it was apparently way over budget.

Anyway, this video is pretty funny to me, not sure it's entirely approriate for this thread - so if it's not I apologize for sticking it here, but it does feature Quaritch. lol I found it via MissTammie, so credit goes to her for that of course.

( You're Not in Kansas Anymore )
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  #75  
Old 03-15-2012, 12:19 AM
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I HRH'd at the Wal-mart one

Edit: HRHRHRHRHRH @ the border
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