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Old 01-26-2011, 01:49 AM
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Default why Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at'ite, not Eytukan'ite

This name implies daughter of her mother, yet later in the movie, Tsu'tey is called Atey'itan, or son of his father, Ateyo. Why the difference? I know her mother is an important person, but then so is her father, unless it's always different per gender.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by EywaBlessMe View Post
This name implies daughter of her mother, yet later in the movie, Tsu'tey is called Atey'itan, or son of his father, Ateyo. Why the difference? I know her mother is an important person, but then so is her father, unless it's always different per gender.
I read it as being as simple as: daughters are the daughters of their mothers, sons are the sons of their fathers. This tends to fit in with the sexual equality in Na'vi society*, that neither mothers nor fathers are favoured more highly than the other.






*mostly, anyway - the tsahik is always female, while the clan leader can be any gender, but that seems to be a special case.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:37 AM
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We don't know for sure that Ateyo is a man's name.

Personally, I tend to see the Na'vi as matrilineal, but there are lots of different possibilities. The "Tskaha" part of Neytiri's name and the "Rongloa" part of Tsu'tey's name also seem to be family indicators. It could be that the "daughter of" part is Matrilineal and the "Tskaha" part is patrilineal. Or they could both be matrilineal.

If Ateyo is indeed a man's name, it could simply be that women are referred to as the daughter of their mother, and men are referred to as the son of their father.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:42 AM
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We don't know for sure that Ateyo is a man's name.

Personally, I tend to see the Na'vi as matrilineal, but there are lots of different possibilities. The "Tskaha" part of Neytiri's name and the "Rongloa" part of Tsu'tey's name also seem to be family indicators. It could be that the "daughter of" part is Matrilineal and the "Tskaha" part is patrilineal. Or they could both be matrilineal.

If Ateyo is indeed a man's name, it could simply be that women are referred to as the daughter of their mother, and men are referred to as the son of their father.
....I so didn't think of Ateyo possibly being a woman's name. Oh, this raises so many interesting possibilities. Because I can actually see them being following the mother's family over the father's, as well, with their religion. Hmmm.
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:14 PM
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I read it as being as simple as: daughters are the daughters of their mothers, sons are the sons of their fathers. This tends to fit in with the sexual equality in Na'vi society*, that neither mothers nor fathers are favoured more highly than the other.
Exactly. It's the same way in human cultures which use parents as part of names in that way.
As for Ateyo, the dictionary says it is a male name, it does sound more like a male name anyway. It would make a lot more sense this way because the Na'vi are very equal between males and females.

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....I so didn't think of Ateyo possibly being a woman's name. Oh, this raises so many interesting possibilities. Because I can actually see them being following the mother's family over the father's, as well, with their religion. Hmmm.
Firstly, it's not a 'religion' - neither does it say ANYTHING, anywhere, at all, about females being any more or less important. I have no idea where you got this from.
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:34 PM
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Firstly, it's not a 'religion' - neither does it say ANYTHING, anywhere, at all, about females being any more or less important. I have no idea where you got this from.
*blinks* Yes, it is a religion. Unless we have very different views on what a religion IS. They have a deity and they have rituals, and a consistent way of thinking that fits in with it, and they even have a spiritual leader - the Will of Eywa, Eywa will Provide, 'a place where prayers are heard', and so on and so forth.

There is a difference between the science of Eywa, and the way the Na'vi would view Her - and they view Her like any other people views their deity. Culturally, they...have a religion.

And I got that the tsahik is always female from the blu-ray pandorapedia. Likewise, it said nothing about the clan-leaders always being male. Due to their deity being the All-Mother, and the one who reads the omens and signs as always female, I thought it could be a logical leap to make in following the lines down the mother's line.

That SAID, I think I'd go with them following the line of the same-gender parent because of the way that - aside from the tsahik - they don't appear to have clear gender-roles in their society. Admittedly, that only works if the Na'vi have a gender binary.
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:59 PM
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It's still a sentient being, not a supernatural entity. There IS no human equivalent, because no humans place another being in such high regard, plus there ARE no known sentient non-human beings on Earth. People don't always need to put everything into little boxes which conveniently match human perceptions.
As for the tsahik, since, the olo'eyktan and tsahik are mated... it makes far more sense for the olo'eyktan to be male, unless some tsahik ARE male.
The Na'vi have both male and female hunters - although we don't see much of other Na'vi, it seems both are parents too (for example, in the SE/CE, where the Na'vi stops his daughter from going up to Jake)
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:33 AM
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It's still a sentient being, not a supernatural entity. There IS no human equivalent, because no humans place another being in such high regard, plus there ARE no known sentient non-human beings on Earth. People don't always need to put everything into little boxes which conveniently match human perceptions.
As for the tsahik, since, the olo'eyktan and tsahik are mated... it makes far more sense for the olo'eyktan to be male, unless some tsahik ARE male.
The Na'vi have both male and female hunters - although we don't see much of other Na'vi, it seems both are parents too (for example, in the SE/CE, where the Na'vi stops his daughter from going up to Jake)
...you know, I'm too tired and too ill to debate the religion thing. I see it as functional as any religion from a social, cultural and anthropological point of view, you clearly do not. I suggest we leave it there.

And actually, the clan leader doesn't have to be male at all. The Na'vi have homosexuals, and from the blu-ray Pandorapedia, I get the sense that they are not common, but not UNcommon either. And also in the blu-ray Pandorapedia, it says the tsahik is always female. Unless I read it incorrectly.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:36 AM
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As for the tsahik, since, the olo'eyktan and tsahik are mated... it makes far more sense for the olo'eyktan to be male, unless some tsahik ARE male.
You're forgetting about male-male and female-female pairings. These exist, according to Pandorapedia.
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How do you make up after you've done the unforgivable? Jake and Neytiri have a conversation in the wake of Hometree's destruction, during their first real moment alone following his return as Toruk Makto.

The Last Train Home
Fourteen years after the war, a lone spaceship appears in the sky. The former members of the Avatar program watch its approach expecting the worst, fearing for their adopted home. Then the ship lands. And suddenly, nothing makes sense anymore.

Five seconds too late
This is a different kind of Jake/Neytiri romance, the story that would've unfolded had she been delayed for just five seconds while trying to reach him following the fight with Quaritch.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:41 AM
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...you know, I'm too tired and too ill to debate the religion thing. I see it as functional as any religion from a social, cultural and anthropological point of view, you clearly do not. I suggest we leave it there.

And actually, the clan leader doesn't have to be male at all. The Na'vi have homosexuals, and from the blu-ray Pandorapedia, I get the sense that they are not common, but not UNcommon either. And also in the blu-ray Pandorapedia, it says the tsahik is always female. Unless I read it incorrectly.
Sooo, with the Eastern Sea Ikran tribe leader being female and tsahiks being female...
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:37 AM
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Sooo, with the Eastern Sea Ikran tribe leader being female and tsahiks being female...
Then it's probable/most likely that the Eastern Sea Ikran Clan Chief is lesbian, yes. Frankly, I think this is beyond awesome.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:57 AM
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You're forgetting about male-male and female-female pairings. These exist, according to Pandorapedia.
GAY NA'VI?!?!?
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Sothis View Post
You're forgetting about male-male and female-female pairings. These exist, according to Pandorapedia.
They still aren't the majority, plus the fact that the olo'eyktan and tsahik's daughter becomes the next tsahik.

Quote:
The most prominent example of this is that the Olo’eyctan, or Clan Leader, is always paired with the Tsahk, or Shamanic Matriarch.
From the SE. Yes, that could be taken to mean that an olo'eyktan could be female, but that is still going to remain a rare occurrence, especially since the tsahik's daughter is the future tsahik.

Quote:
Social roles are not necessarily determined by gender. Females are known to be active hunters and clan leaders, while males often choose to focus on child rearing or crafts, such as Na’vi weaving. The arts are of vital importance in Na’vi culture, with all individuals encouraged, even socially required, to be active in music, singing, ceramics, weaving, and dance.
It's not based on gender. Such roles are an artificial human construct which have been absent through the majority of history.

...and yes, female-female and male-male bondings do exist.
Quote:
Na’vi males are typically pair bonded with females, but male-male and female-female permanent bonds are not uncommon. Sexual activity outside of the bonded pair is not uncommon, but is almost always associated with fertility rituals and other rites, and has never been reported to lead to a disruption of the pair bond.
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:19 AM
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They still aren't the majority, plus the fact that the olo'eyktan and tsahik's daughter becomes the next tsahik.
Help me out... where does it say that the next Tsahik has to be the current Tsahik's daughter? I honestly can't remember reading this anywhere canonical, and I wonder if it might be fanon?

If it *IS* canon (a quote would be greatly appreciated), there's always those fertility rituals indicated in Pandorapedia.
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How do you make up after you've done the unforgivable? Jake and Neytiri have a conversation in the wake of Hometree's destruction, during their first real moment alone following his return as Toruk Makto.

The Last Train Home
Fourteen years after the war, a lone spaceship appears in the sky. The former members of the Avatar program watch its approach expecting the worst, fearing for their adopted home. Then the ship lands. And suddenly, nothing makes sense anymore.

Five seconds too late
This is a different kind of Jake/Neytiri romance, the story that would've unfolded had she been delayed for just five seconds while trying to reach him following the fight with Quaritch.
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Old 01-26-2015, 07:11 PM
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Becouse she is a girl nat a boy. If she would be a boy it would be 'Neytiri te Tskaha Eytukan'itan' but since she's a girl its 'Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at'ite"
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