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  #1  
Old 01-24-2014, 04:11 PM
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Default Na'vi colour morphs

Ok I hope this is a good section to put this post. Guess the gen discussion section might've been better but it has so much totally unrelated talk so...

I made this topic on LN but LN is so srs bznz it feels like ppl aren't awfully willing to uh, headcanon there or something. So.

What do y'all think Na'vi with albinism would look like? Anyone who knows about the workings of albinism (and leucism and aeumelanism and whatnot) wanna talk about it? Anyone who can art wanna draw designs of Na'vi with different colourations?

In general, let's talk about what different colours Na'vi could be, yeah?
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:37 PM
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Woah, I have been here 3 and a bit years and I never thought of this or seen a post on it.

I'm sure in the Navi clan there would be some genetic mutations (maybe). Whether it would be a skin condition like Vitiligo, or maybe their bio-luminescent spots would be altered or non-existent... hmmm. Definitely possible, will photoshop.
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:59 PM
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Thinks:

Aeumelanistic:
Skin: light blue; no stripes, IF the stripes are caused by eumelanin as opposed to tighter-packed cyan pigment
Hair: Pale yellow, golden or red
Eyes: Yellow-orange, orange, yellowgreen (if green is caused by a cyan biochrome, not eumelanin-based structural colouration)

Amelanistic (albinistic):
Skin: pale pink, pale lilac(?), faint striping(?) (may have blue spots)
Hair: pale yellow, golden
Eyes: orange(?)

Acyanochromatic: (if separate cyan pigment)
Skin: pale pink; stripes
Hair: Dark
Eyes: yellow, yellowgreen

Melanistic:
Skin: dark blue, dark blue with thin lighter stripes, black-blue(?)
Hair: black
Eyes: yellow, yellowgreen, darker(?), brown(?)
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:30 PM
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This is such a cool topic, very interesting post I've wondered before about if na'vi in different regions look different, especially since na'vi that we've seen all look extremely similar, but this never really occurred to me, maybe because the na'vi don't seem to have disease. I hope Raiden sees this thread soon, I'm curious what he thinks.
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:24 PM
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You've put a lot of thought into this.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:35 PM
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Bwahaha no I have not XD I was just feeling bored so I googled some stuff... Then I ended up reading a lot of stuff on Wikipedia because it was really interesting. (Like, that most blue that we see in animals, and for example, blue eyes in humans, are caused by structural colouration rather than any actual blue pigment, I mean how cool is that????)
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:43 AM
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Wow! Wonderful colour morphs!
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:28 PM
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I was wondering about Na'vi colors for quite a while - especially after dreams where I saw... purple Na'vi! just like in your picture but darker, closer to violet...
interestingly, Pandorapedia has a scientific explanation for images from far-out dreams:

QUOTE:
Na’vi skin is hairless except for the cranium and the tip of the tail, and contains cyanin, a pigment that produces colors in the blue, purple and cyan spectrum.
...
The pigment becomes darker and shifts toward purple with long exposure to sunlight.
UNQUOTE
So I am betting that the Na'vi who live on the beach would be purple / violet! and... could the Na'vi who live in less sunny areas be... turquoise??

Anatomy and Physiology | Pandorapedia: The Official Guide to Pandora | Own AVATAR on Blu-ray & DVD Now!

I also wonder if there are different Na'vi races?
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:23 AM
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Oh, this again.

Yes, it's perfectly possible.

If one assumes that the most common human color morph is a beige/peach-like color, then African people, Asian people, and native american people are all color morphs.

Without the extra pigmentation, humans would be mostly whitish. People who have red hair tend to also have very white skin with a poor melanin response (they do not "tan", they just get sunburns), and the very dark skin of equatorial peoples (African and South/Central American peoples) is actually an adaptation to keep them from absorbing too much UV radiation from the sun; melanin blocks UV radiation and help reduce the instance of skin cancer in those groups. Basically, African people are hypermelanistic humans, and people with very white skin are hypomelanistic humans.

The same pattern shows up in other animals; the pressures of living in a naturally-existing ecosystem usually causes natural selection to select for a specific color.

A good example in my region would have to be pacific chorus frogs (Pseudacris regilla). These frogs are usually green, and they tend to live in marshy areas where there is some form of water year-round. These areas also tend to have a lot of vegetation such as reeds and grasses, and so the green color morph is the best at staying out of sight of herons and racoons, which would like to eat them. However, there are also Pacific Chorus frogs living in places where there is more brown colors than green colors, such as in areas with a lot of coniferous trees. The frogs here are more likely to escape predation if they are more brown than green, and that's exactly what natural selection has done to them; the green frogs were all eaten and so the brown frogs were more successful and laid more eggs, and the next generation was more brown, and so on.

You can really carry this to just about every animals on the planet; cave-dwelling animals (troglobites and stygobites) have no colors, because colors are just how animals see light, and there is no light in caves, so over time the presence of eyes was selected against (weakly, though; not strongly like the frog example) as was the presence of pigmentation, and soon animals like fish and insects living in caves were eyeless and colorless.

You can carry this to the Na'vi as well, and probably every single animal on Pandora. The Na'vi are probably blue because the blue color is caused by a pigment that blocks out the wavelengths of radiation (light) that Alpha Centauri throws at them. So, taking the human example, the Na'vi living closer to the more exposed parts of Pandora (which may not be the equator, depending on orbit-related interactions with Polyphemus) would probably have darker skin, because that would be them slightly more resistant to damage caused by the UV radiation cast off by their star.

The kinds of color morphs amongst their species would be limited to skin pigmentation, stripe placement, and stripe pigmentation, with the additional possibility of the lack of one pigment exposing another that is normally not seen because the blue makes it too hard to see it (for example, if the Na'vi also have a pigment that is slightly green/teal, Na'vi who lacked some blue pigment might be slightly more green-looking than "normal")

These, however:

IMG]http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/127/2/c/purple_neytiri_by_minirifpomsiyu-d7hinfh.jpg[/IMG]

Would not make any sense, because there is absolutely no reason to have so many different colors, and they would probably make them stand out too much and/or provide no protection against UV radiation.
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2014, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
Oh, this again.

Yes, it's perfectly possible.

If one assumes that the most common human color morph is a beige/peach-like color, then African people, Asian people, and native american people are all color morphs.

Without the extra pigmentation, humans would be mostly whitish. People who have red hair tend to also have very white skin with a poor melanin response (they do not "tan", they just get sunburns), and the very dark skin of equatorial peoples (African and South/Central American peoples) is actually an adaptation to keep them from absorbing too much UV radiation from the sun; melanin blocks UV radiation and help reduce the instance of skin cancer in those groups. Basically, African people are hypermelanistic humans, and people with very white skin are hypomelanistic humans.

The same pattern shows up in other animals; the pressures of living in a naturally-existing ecosystem usually causes natural selection to select for a specific color.

A good example in my region would have to be pacific chorus frogs (Pseudacris regilla). These frogs are usually green, and they tend to live in marshy areas where there is some form of water year-round. These areas also tend to have a lot of vegetation such as reeds and grasses, and so the green color morph is the best at staying out of sight of herons and racoons, which would like to eat them. However, there are also Pacific Chorus frogs living in places where there is more brown colors than green colors, such as in areas with a lot of coniferous trees. The frogs here are more likely to escape predation if they are more brown than green, and that's exactly what natural selection has done to them; the green frogs were all eaten and so the brown frogs were more successful and laid more eggs, and the next generation was more brown, and so on.

You can really carry this to just about every animals on the planet; cave-dwelling animals (troglobites and stygobites) have no colors, because colors are just how animals see light, and there is no light in caves, so over time the presence of eyes was selected against (weakly, though; not strongly like the frog example) as was the presence of pigmentation, and soon animals like fish and insects living in caves were eyeless and colorless.

You can carry this to the Na'vi as well, and probably every single animal on Pandora. The Na'vi are probably blue because the blue color is caused by a pigment that blocks out the wavelengths of radiation (light) that Alpha Centauri throws at them. So, taking the human example, the Na'vi living closer to the more exposed parts of Pandora (which may not be the equator, depending on orbit-related interactions with Polyphemus) would probably have darker skin, because that would be them slightly more resistant to damage caused by the UV radiation cast off by their star.

The kinds of color morphs amongst their species would be limited to skin pigmentation, stripe placement, and stripe pigmentation, with the additional possibility of the lack of one pigment exposing another that is normally not seen because the blue makes it too hard to see it (for example, if the Na'vi also have a pigment that is slightly green/teal, Na'vi who lacked some blue pigment might be slightly more green-looking than "normal")

These, however:

Would not make any sense, because there is absolutely no reason to have so many different colors, and they would probably make them stand out too much and/or provide no protection against UV radiation.
Hey I just posted them because they looked cool. Don't go getting all analytical now. Besides, with all the wild coloring you see in the animal species on Pandora, why couldn't they be more wildly colored? It's an alien world The laws of the ecosystems on pandora are different from that on earth. The fact that all the species are brightly (even neon) colored is an indicator of that, since they couldn't blend in with their green/ earthy colored environments like most animals do on earth. It's bizarre to say the least.
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Old 05-19-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
These, however:
Would not make any sense, because there is absolutely no reason to have so many different colors, and they would probably make them stand out too much and/or provide no protection against UV radiation.
Disagree, in an evolutionary context, sexual selection renders ridiculous stand-offish color combos to make a modicum of sense.
EDIT: though it probably still wouldn't make sense to have /all/ these color combos at once in one species.

Last edited by Sarah Noel; 05-19-2014 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 05-20-2014, 03:01 AM
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Disagree, in an evolutionary context, sexual selection renders ridiculous stand-offish color combos to make a modicum of sense.
Yeah, I left that out on purpose.

I was going to mention the famous guppy example but I don't think that chromatic sexual selection would be as likely to happen with a species whose members select mates for shape rather than color (i.e. human males tend to like legs and breasts on females that fall in a certain range of shapes and sizes). I also seem to recall that chromatic sexual selection tended to occur in species that selected mates by sight and that species that utilized chromatic selection tended to exhibit chromatic sexual dimorphism (like the guppies), but I'm not so sure about the last part, because the dimorphism has to start somewhere.

Granted, I'm assuming that the Na'vi also select for shape (and I'm ignoring the fact that they have so much in common with us, which is a whole 'nother can of worms). Also, it seems like the stripes would be too important for staying hidden to catch prey or hide from predators, and a "splash" of bright colors somewhere would not help that effort.

That being said, I could see a more subtle color morph become sexually selected for (like an aberrant stripe pattern or skin with a slightly more green hue), so long as it doesn't just look strange to the Na'vi and not attractive.
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Old 05-20-2014, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Mi'niri View Post
Hey I just posted them because they looked cool. Don't go getting all analytical now. Besides, with all the wild coloring you see in the animal species on Pandora, why couldn't they be more wildly colored? It's an alien world The laws of the ecosystems on pandora are different from that on earth. The fact that all the species are brightly (even neon) colored is an indicator of that, since they couldn't blend in with their green/ earthy colored environments like most animals do on earth. It's bizarre to say the least.
Well...it's not that simple. Worlds in other star systems are still bound by the laws of chemistry and physics, and the laws of chemistry and physics are what shape the laws of biology and ecology.

Pandora's ecosystem would also work more or less the same way. There are producers (plants and other photosynthesizing organisms), which are eaten by consumers, and then the next tier of consumers eat the first tier of consumers, and so on. The actual life forms are certainly different, but that's like comparing two different cars; assuming each car runs on a "standard" octane-fueled engine, they work the same way.

Also, not every animal wants to blend in; only some do. Tigers have stripes because it helps them blend in with the vegetation in the forests where they live, but dart frogs do not, because they have incredibly toxic skin secretions, and by advertising these through their bright colors, they ward off predators, who have learned to avoid the frogs. Many birds are also colorful or have coloration that "stands out" too, because it helps them attract a mate and pass on their genes to a new generation; this is what Sarah brought up, and it's also the reason why many fish and lizards are relatively colorful even though it makes them easier to see in their habitat. The selective pressure to get a mate is higher than the selective pressure of predation on noticeable individuals, so the more noticeable (colorful) individuals pass on their genes through mating and the next generation is a little more colorful than the last.

The Na'vi would probably not have crazy colors like that for the reasons I explained in the other post; they probably wouldn't help them hide from predators/prey, and there probably would not be a reason for them to select for those colors in a mate, because it would be "too strange" to be attractive, and they may select mates more for physical shape than color. Finally, they would need specific types of pigment molecules to form those colors, and I would be surprised if they had the means to produce that many colors at once.
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
Well...it's not that simple. Worlds in other star systems are still bound by the laws of chemistry and physics, and the laws of chemistry and physics are what shape the laws of biology and ecology.

Pandora's ecosystem would also work more or less the same way. There are producers (plants and other photosynthesizing organisms), which are eaten by consumers, and then the next tier of consumers eat the first tier of consumers, and so on. The actual life forms are certainly different, but that's like comparing two different cars; assuming each car runs on a "standard" octane-fueled engine, they work the same way.

Also, not every animal wants to blend in; only some do. Tigers have stripes because it helps them blend in with the vegetation in the forests where they live, but dart frogs do not, because they have incredibly toxic skin secretions, and by advertising these through their bright colors, they ward off predators, who have learned to avoid the frogs. Many birds are also colorful or have coloration that "stands out" too, because it helps them attract a mate and pass on their genes to a new generation; this is what Sarah brought up, and it's also the reason why many fish and lizards are relatively colorful even though it makes them easier to see in their habitat. The selective pressure to get a mate is higher than the selective pressure of predation on noticeable individuals, so the more noticeable (colorful) individuals pass on their genes through mating and the next generation is a little more colorful than the last.

The Na'vi would probably not have crazy colors like that for the reasons I explained in the other post; they probably wouldn't help them hide from predators/prey, and there probably would not be a reason for them to select for those colors in a mate, because it would be "too strange" to be attractive, and they may select mates more for physical shape than color. Finally, they would need specific types of pigment molecules to form those colors, and I would be surprised if they had the means to produce that many colors at once.

I get what ur saying; i really do. And I understand that all worlds abide by certain laws of physics and chemistry. But part of me thinks that you don't have enough imagination to think outside the box. I mean not only do you have brightly colored animals, but you have floating mountains for crying out loud! A lot of it involves imagination especially with an alien world. Besides, I never thought na'vi would actually look like that. Like I said: I just posted them because they looked cool and I had fun doing them in photoshop.
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Old 05-24-2014, 06:14 PM
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I get what ur saying; i really do. And I understand that all worlds abide by certain laws of physics and chemistry. But part of me thinks that you don't have enough imagination to think outside the box. I mean not only do you have brightly colored animals, but you have floating mountains for crying out loud! A lot of it involves imagination especially with an alien world. Besides, I never thought na'vi would actually look like that. Like I said: I just posted them because they looked cool and I had fun doing them in photoshop.
The floating mountains are explainable too, up to a point.

I understand what you're saying, but one of the reasons why I like Avatar so much is because it is a really great example of realistic science fiction. Many of the things in the world of the movie can be explained by actual science, and compared to stories like Star Wars, relatively few things are just fictional.

I loved the Lord of the Rings movies too (and the Hobbit), but those things can never be real, because they do not follow the universal laws of nature that govern physics, chemistry, and biology.

To me, that's great, because it means that Pandora not only piques my imagination, but many of the creatures, the Na'vi, and the machines are mostly possible, and there's a lot of "possible" out there in the universe.
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