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Old 04-25-2010, 12:42 PM
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Default An Unarmed America?







After watching this (I hope things are not actually like this in America), I was just wondering... Why do Americans have such a need to get a gun to feel safe? As you become safer you are also a menace for your neighborhood.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:35 PM
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The reason I feel safe with my gun is knowing if some person bent on stealing, and killing breaks into my home I can defend myself. Because it is most likely if they have a gun and I don't I will lose, but if we both have guns it will be more fair so to speak. Sorry if this comes off as sounding like a game but its the easiest explanation. Now, I would be more than happy to not have a gun in the house if I could be positive that no one with a gun would break into my home. But till then, better safe than sorry.

But, I have larger rifles and assault rifles but I use them for shooting targets which I would call recreation because it is fun. And I keep a shotgun for trap shooting (shooting clay targets thrown in the air) which is also fun.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:23 PM
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That was absolutely ridiculous; didn't care to watch more than half. Sorry.

People kill, not guns. An old saying, I know, but nevertheless a very important one that many of the libs haven't heard yet... And you can't make up for crimes with more gun regulations. Blaming guns for crime is like blaming spoons for Rosie O'Donnell being fat. And we happened to use guns to win the War for Independence.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
That was absolutely ridiculous; didn't care to watch more than half. Sorry.

People kill, not guns. An old saying, I know, but nevertheless a very important one that many of the libs haven't heard yet... And you can't make up for crimes with more gun regulations. Blaming guns for crime is like blaming spoons for Rosie O'Donnell being fat. And we happened to use guns to win the War for Independence.
I know Woodsprite, but what I don't like at all about the US is that it has a society in which to be safe you need to owe a gun (^FoW). They even sell guns to children, for God's sake.

And you can't tell me it's not easier to commit homicide or suicide while passing a difficult emotional period (divorce, depression, recent robbery...) when you have a gun rather than when you haven't got one. If I were in an emo mood like "Oh God this is so pointless I'm gonna kill myself" it would be easier for me to just shot myself down. It's quick and theoretically painless. If you have a gun, you can commit crime with an impressing ease (it's much more convincing a man with a gun at a bank than a man with a knife).

And also, the only use you can make of arms is killing. Or at least, make serious injury to someone.

I say that if in America, the gun market was restricted to certain groups of people (although there would be always a black market, that's uncontrollable), it'd turn out a safer place. Or at least, you can be sure they wouldn't give a gun to any idiot.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:15 PM
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That's... not true. Remember before 1963? You could leave your car unlocked with a shotgun in the back seat, and there weren't any school shootings back then, were there? People don't seem to understand that once guns are more of a restricted item that are frowned upon in regular society, the crime rises dramatically because they know that if they rampage a grocery store, no one else is going fight back. The criminal's best friend is the regulation of firearms.

Take a man who's robbing a bank. He takes out a gun and threatens, "GET ON THE GROUND! NOW!" Now imagine if 4 or 5 others unveiled their guns, aimed, and responded, "No sir, you get on the ground."

"Why d'you carry a gun around?? Are you some kind of psycho or something? Why do you need a gun??" Well, to protect myself for situations that may arise. People have remained the same since the old days. It's just that the old days held more rights for the individual. If more responsible people would ignore the petty libs who bombard us with "Guns kill!" all day 24/7, and just bought guns to protect themselves, the crime would sharply drop. More guns = more safety, not more crime. Criminals will remain criminals. They've always broken the law, and they've always existed. It's the people's gun rights that have changed that whole senario, and don't you think for a second that it's all been done in the name of "safety".

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Old 04-25-2010, 08:35 PM
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I have to agree with woodsprite. If you take our guns away you also take away our means of protection. Put it like this, a man breaks into your house with a .45 and a bad attitude, he kills your family an then you, now on the other hand if you had a gun with you, you could have defended yourself. Gun control will not stop crime, a violent criminal isnt going to be stopped by gun control. Please post the source which said they sell guns to children, you have to be 18 and can have no past felonys. You cant even buy handgun ammo until the age of 21 in my state. Sure columbine might have been prevented with gun control, but thats one instance. A murderer with the intent to kill someone can get a gun off the black market for much cheaper. With an increase on gun control you will see an equal increase on the black market sales.
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
That's... not true. Remember before 1963? You could leave your car unlocked with a shotgun in the back seat, and there weren't any school shootings back then, were there? People don't seem to understand that once guns are more of a restricted item that are frowned upon in regular society, the crime rises dramatically because they know that if they rampage a grocery store, no one else is going fight back. The criminal's best friend is the regulation of firearms.

Take a man who's robbing a bank. He takes out a gun and threatens, "GET ON THE GROUND! NOW!" Now imagine if 4 or 5 others unveiled their guns, aimed, and responded, "No sir, you get on the ground."

"Why d'you carry a gun around?? Are you some kind of psycho or something? Why do you need a gun??" Well, to protect myself for situations that may arise. People have remained the same since the old days. It's just that the old days held more rights for the individual. If more responsible people would ignore the petty libs who bombard us with "Guns kill!" all day 24/7, and just bought guns to protect themselves, the crime would sharply drop. More guns = more safety, not more crime. Criminals will remain criminals. They've always broken the law, and they've always existed. It's the people's gun rights that have changed that whole senario, and don't you think for a second that it's all been done in the name of "safety".
Old days will remain old days. We've got a dictatorship by then, you know? Times change.

And in this case, they changed because people weren't so afraid as they're now. I believe fear is a massive element to be taken in count when talking about arms -you don't feel the need of being safer for nothing. See, when the 2009 crisis arose, I read that on the US guns were being sold out just like ice creams in front of a primary school. Something similar happened with the 911. Add to that fear factor the influence from violent situations seen in movies, videogames,... I'm sure that on the '63 the TV guide showed something quite different.

Also, regulation of firearms is the criminal's best friend on a country where guns are spread all over it. Once you make them accessible to a few ones, or you had one before or the criminals with a gun take over. We Europeans see with bad eyes all that armament because we never, in our history, let the average citizen have guns unless they've got a quite justified reason to owe one. In your case, it was the Independence War, but now the English won't occupy your mainland again, why to keep them so accessible for everyone?

We've never questioned how those situations arise; they just don't pop out like nothing. Or why criminals become criminals. But I can assure that, just if people hadn't got arms by their side, there wouldn't be so much crime on the United States.

But they've got them. How should we handle that situation: that is the question.

Anyway, crime is everywhere. How we deal with it is a different issue: we rely on policemen while you do so on your guns. And I'll let the stats talk this time: in Spain the crime rate is 22.8867 per 1,000 people. In the US, 80.0645 per 1,000 people.

EDIT: And a final question I want to throw out: when was the last time you used your gun?
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Last edited by ZenitYerkes; 04-25-2010 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:21 PM
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Shouldnt it be a good thing if he hasnt had to use his guns for protection?
Criminals dont go to a gun store pick out a 600-1000 dollar gun, get the background check to see if he has had any past crimes, and then go kill someone, its even less likely they go through the class and get the extremely expensive permit required to get automatic guns. They get them through illegal trade, the Black Market. If a criminal wants a gun to kill someone he wont be stopped by gun control laws. Plus you should probably live in America before taking part in our politics, just sayin. Where is the logic in your argument. Well crime rates ar increasing and murders arent stopping, oh heres a suggestion lets take away the law abiding citizens only means of prtection.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow View Post
Shouldnt it be a good thing if he hasnt had to use his guns for protection?
Criminals dont go to a gun store pick out a 600-1000 dollar gun, get the background check to see if he has had any past crimes, and then go kill someone, its even less likely they go through the class and get the extremely expensive permit required to get automatic guns. They get them through illegal trade, the Black Market. If a criminal wants a gun to kill someone he wont be stopped by gun control laws. Plus you should probably live in America before taking part in our politics, just sayin. Where is the logic in your argument. Well crime rates ar increasing and murders arent stopping, oh heres a suggestion lets take away the law abiding citizens only means of prtection.
I made this topic to learn. Because I just don't understand why you've got that amount of firearms under the pillow, and can't sleep well without one. And I (want to) believe police is still a effective means of protection. However, I don't know how police is in the US, do I?

About the black market thing: we've got that too. In fact, the black market is spread all over the world. As said before, the only thing that changes is how the different countries deal with the situation. And I find it alarming that you need a gun to protect yourself from the criminals.

Also; take in count that there are cases (I'd say most of them, but I can't prove it) in which those "criminals" that use guns were normal people with one before, and when they needed money, their girlfriend left them or the lawyer couldn't avoid their daughter getting in prison, they took it out.
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Last edited by ZenitYerkes; 04-25-2010 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:52 PM
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The police are effective here but they arent omnicient. Why is it alarming? how else are we supposed to protect ourselves. What do you think america is like? criminals just running around killing people at will? Most people dont have to use guns to protect themslves, but once in a blue moon they do and they are thankfull they are still live because of our second amendement. So that guy who goes and kills people out of anger, what if those people could potect themselves. Besides thats extremly rare.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
Old days will remain old days. We've got a dictatorship by then, you know? Times change.
Times change with laws and technology, not with emotions or personalities. People will remain the same so long as the earth is rotating.

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Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
And in this case, they changed because people weren't so afraid as they're now. I believe fear is a massive element to be taken in count when talking about arms -you don't feel the need of being safer for nothing.
I don't know where you're getting this. Somehow you think people are "more afraid"... More afraid of what? You're blaming gun crime rising on some sort of fear, rather than the logical conclusion that: after the regulations are sharply increased for the average citizen, the criminal can waltz about. Gun control isn't about guns. It's about control.

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Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
See, when the 2009 crisis arose, I read that on the US guns were being sold out just like ice creams in front of a primary school.
...Where did you read this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
Something similar happened with the 911. Add to that fear factor the influence from violent situations seen in movies, videogames,... I'm sure that on the '63 the TV guide showed something quite different.
What did 9/11 have to do with movies or video games?

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Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
Also, regulation of firearms is the criminal's best friend on a country where guns are spread all over it. Once you make them accessible to a few ones, or you had one before or the criminals with a gun take over. We Europeans see with bad eyes all that armament because we never, in our history, let the average citizen have guns unless they've got a quite justified reason to owe one.
Every dictator has wanted gun control, because whoever has the guns, has all the control, basically. It's that simple. Hitler, Lenin, and Salin were all avid supporters of such regulation. Now, I'm not saying you're like them if you support regulation, not at all. But I am saying that one thing leads to another concerning such laws. Don Boys once said, "You might be a liberal if you don't trust honest Americans with automatic weapons but you do trust the federal government with them." Now, knowing your views, you're probably nodding now. "Yes. I agree. Those in authority know better."

He went on, "You might be a liberal if you think guns are the cause of crime but you don't think matches are the cause of arson."

"You might be a liberal if you think the death penalty is 'government sanctioned killing' but you don't think a prison sentence is government sanctioned kidnapping."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
In your case, it was the Independence War, but now the English won't occupy your mainland again, why to keep them so accessible for everyone?
The second ammendment of our Constitution was established not just for personal protection against crime, but for protection against a spoiled government. It reads,

Quote:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Notice, "...being necessary to the security of a free State..." Protection is a vital right given that protects. With all due respect and no intended offense toward you or anyone, the European Union is screwed up. Only allowing guns for "absolute necessity" is hogwash, because now you're under the strict control of the government's will on what is and isn't necessary according to their word, not yours.

I live in Texas, and out here you can't travel across the state one day without seeing a longhorned bull. They eat grass, so why the big horns? Protection. Now, imagine we've got a load of lions as the heads of the ranch. They want to pass a law that outlaws horns because it's dangerous for such untrained animals to possess such dangerous weapons. During the meeting there were several cited examples that showed accidental deaths involving horns. Well now, we can't have these animals roaming around like this! Something must be done!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
We've never questioned how those situations arise; they just don't pop out like nothing. Or why criminals become criminals. But I can assure that, just if people hadn't got arms by their side, there wouldn't be so much crime on the United States.
That is not true. Think through with the logic: every honest American has no gun. All the criminals do have guns because the laws mean absolutely nothing to them. How long before we end up like Mexico?

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Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
And a final question I want to throw out: when was the last time you used your gun?
Why does this matter?
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:21 AM
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Well , this problem will never be solved since mankind invented guns , not to kill the bad guys or to protect yourself , it's more like a bullet to it's own head .

with creating guns or weapons in general we opened the door to hell and since that time it has stayed open and we are getting payed back for it each day , there's probably enough arms around the word to arm every single woman and kid with a kalashnikov and some grenades and all that for profit , guns haven't been made for defense , only for profit and that's pretty much a fact if you look back at history , it was always the main reason for gun-selling .

people will never stop building/improving guns in order to kill each other , guns don't know right or wrong ,good or bad , they don't know different mentalities or idiologies , you can see M16 Carbines produced in the US , transported to the middle east and from there sold to every 3rd world country you could think of , the same goes for china and russia .

You can't solve the gun-problems , it more likely solves you , if you try to solve it, mankind just holds the barrel in front of it's face with the finger on the trigger , guns should have never existed .
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:38 AM
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Sad but true.

I know it's exaggerated for humour, but unfortunately, it's all too real.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:14 PM
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The video may be real but it doesnt explain why we should have our guns taken away.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:48 PM
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The problem with stringent restrictions on gun control is that less honest people will have the means to protect themselves and more criminals will be able to get away with more violent crimes since they get their guns on the black market. I don't like guns. I don't own one. However, I understand the need for them. There are people who still go out hunting in the US so they use guns to hunt. Many people have guns for protection.

There are violent people out there that have done very terrible things. There are parts of the city I live in that I won't venture near because of the crime. They are needed because the criminals won't stop because of gun laws. It is also true that one of the first things that dictators have tried to do is take the guns away from the regular citizens.

Not every place in the US is bloodthirsty and violent. There are many, many places here that are peaceful. However, we must protect ourselves just in case.
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