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Old 05-06-2010, 08:45 PM
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Default Will We Ever Be Able To Change..?

Me - "Man, I always say cause-consequence, action-reaction,... All this sh*t going on has to come from somewhere."
Security Guard - "It's human nature, humans just want more and more and more... Those bastards, all the politicians we pay with our taxes are f*cking bastards"
Me - "You know, I just wonder why we can't get out of here"
Guard - "You just can't. You've got to live here."
Me - "Hey, this is like the man who wants to go to Miami Beach but makes a lot of excuses why he won't go. They say that if you really want to go to a place, you just go."
Guard - "Yeah, but it's not that easy..."
Me - "See, excuses"
Guard - "..."
Me - "How about changing it?"
Guard - "Too difficult. Plus, those people from above won't let it happen"
Me - "Well it's all about trying to put things in practice. You'll never know if you never try"
Guard - "Perhaps, but I don't see this changing ever"

Taken out from a convo I had with the guard of my gated community. He talked nastier and I was beating around the bushes constantly, but that sums it up.

So, you people have seen I've always got something to say about the world. It's a cold place, it's a violent place and it's a bad place where to live. Industrialization, dumping, immigration, greed, selfishness, money, lack of moral values,...

I say a building that doesn't have strong foundations will break down, or will remain crooked, unable to be straightened. I suggest we should question severely where we lay on. We've got an inherited society we didn't make at all, with inherited values, inherited politics and inherited culture.

If our heritage is bad foundations, how can we expect our world to be right?

Shouldn't we be able to change it?

Are we able to change it?
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  #2  
Old 05-06-2010, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
Me - "Man, I always say cause-consequence, action-reaction,... All this sh*t going on has to come from somewhere."
Security Guard - "It's human nature, humans just want more and more and more... Those bastards, all the politicians we pay with our taxes are f*cking bastards"
Me - "You know, I just wonder why we can't get out of here"
Guard - "You just can't. You've got to live here."
Me - "Hey, this is like the man who wants to go to Miami Beach but makes a lot of excuses why he won't go. They say that if you really want to go to a place, you just go."
Guard - "Yeah, but it's not that easy..."
Me - "See, excuses"
Guard - "..."
Me - "How about changing it?"
Guard - "Too difficult. Plus, those people from above won't let it happen"
Me - "Well it's all about trying to put things in practice. You'll never know if you never try"
Guard - "Perhaps, but I don't see this changing ever"

Taken out from a convo I had with the guard of my gated community. He talked nastier and I was beating around the bushes constantly, but that sums it up.

So, you people have seen I've always got something to say about the world. It's a cold place, it's a violent place and it's a bad place where to live. Industrialization, dumping, immigration, greed, selfishness, money, lack of moral values,...

I say a building that doesn't have strong foundations will break down, or will remain crooked, unable to be straightened. I suggest we should question severely where we lay on. We've got an inherited society we didn't make at all, with inherited values, inherited politics and inherited culture.

If our heritage is bad foundations, how can we expect our world to be right?

Shouldn't we be able to change it?

Are we able to change it?
It will take time for change. The problem with many people is that they do not think they can have an impact if they were to change. It all has to start somewhere. I have taken the steps in my life to change and I am doing my best to help others change if it is in them too. This is all we can do tsmukan
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  #3  
Old 05-06-2010, 09:12 PM
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We will change as much as the laws of physics will change , if you once make a bond with the devil , you won't get the chance to go back , besides your guard was right , we are made the way we are , to gain is what we desire , the fuel that keeps the machine running , and I don't see it about to run out ever in the future.

How I can tell that nothing will change ? Well , first of all , nothing has ever changed , only the tools we use to devastate , a thousand years ago we killed each other with swords and bows , today we developed missiles to kill millions at one time , in another 200 years we will probably be able to exterminate whole cities or landscapes .

Why do we do that ? Because it's the only thing we are good at,killing , exploiting , raping and plundering is deeply anchored within us .

Now people might say we are able to change , but what's with the people who said that during WWII when million of people were dying in concentration camps and on the battlefields , what's with the people one thousand years ago whose families died when european warlords went to the middle east and killed countless people , what's with the neanderthal twenty thousand years ago , who used a rock to smash the skull of his contemporary because he liked his pelt , because he desired it , don't you think there were tons of people before you who wanted us to change , well I don't see any change , instead it's getting worse every second ,every hour and every day we exist .

See , it's just us ,since the very beginning it is us , we were made that way , for what purpose , I don't know , maybe we just want to see the world burning to ashes , maybe we are just the agents of chaos , but personally I think it's that hunger for more that drove us insane , you won't be able to cure it , since it's fixed to us .

It's just us , take a look in the mirror .
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  #4  
Old 05-06-2010, 09:28 PM
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There is no prevailing human nature, and I find that "it's just human nature" is an excuse to allow the status quo to continue. To paraphrase from "The Origins of Virtue" by Matt Ridley, mankind is composed of an indeterminable amount of genetic pre-dispositions: tempered with subtle environmental influences. "Human Nature" is a relic of hobbesian thought used to justify the greatest of evils.

Mankind is neither good, nor evil, because there are far more individuals than one can account for in a generalization. Humans respond to stimulus, that much is for certain. Our societies have been constructed, as of late, to break us apart: to make us into gears in the machines. As I believe Alexis de Tocqueville stated(Paraphrased from Memory) ( I may also be wrong on who the author of this quotation is) "The First man to encircle a piece of land, and then sell it to another man doomed humanity". As Ridley also states, in the aforementioned book, we must form our societies into something better, before humanity can become "better".

If we are just monsters, meant to pillage and destroy, there would be no love in this world. No altruism, no kindness to complete strangers, as these would be unaccounted for in the scientific princicple of kin selection. Even on the blackest day, where the greatest of evils scar the land, there is still at least one individual with a fire in their soul that shall not be extinguished.

In short, we must be the change we want to see in the world. We are not monsters, we are men and women. We are neutral, and we have the choice to break the chains and expectations (both good and bad) society places upon us. We have the choice to be simply apes, or something more. The very fact that there are those of us who want to change the societies, and by extention the world, proves that we are not monsters.
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Last edited by Sight; 05-06-2010 at 09:34 PM.
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  #5  
Old 05-06-2010, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Sight View Post
There is no prevailing human nature, and I find that "it's just human nature" is an excuse to allow the status quo to continue. To paraphrase from "The Origins of Virtue" by Matt Ridley, mankind is composed of an indeterminable amount of genetic pre-dispositions: tempered with subtle environmental influences. "Human Nature" is a relic of hobbesian thought used to justify the greatest of evils.

Mankind is neither good, nor evil, because there are far more individuals than one can account for in a generalization. Humans respond to stimulus, that much is for certain. Our societies have been constructed, as of late, to break us apart: to make us into gears in the machines. As I believe Alexis de Tocqueville stated(Paraphrased from Memory) ( I may also be wrong on who the author of this quotation is) "The First man to encircle a piece of land, and then sell it to another man doomed humanity". As Ridley also states, in the aforementioned book, we must form our societies into something better, before humanity can become "better".

If we are just monsters, meant to pillage and destroy, there would be no love in this world. No altruism, no kindness to complete strangers, as these would be unaccounted for in the scientific princicple of kin selection. Even on the blackest day, where the greatest of evils scar the land, there is still at least one individual with a fire in their soul that shall not be extinguished.

In short, we must be the change we want to see in the world. We are not monsters, we are men and women. We are neutral, and we have the choice to break the chains and expectations (both good and bad) society places upon us. We have the choice to be simply apes, or something more. The very fact that there are those of us who want to change the societies, and by extention the world, proves that we are not monsters.
Well said Sight . It all starts with one individual. We all have a free will. Many choose to do evil. However, all it takes is for those who want to do good to do something. Evil prevails when good people sit down and just watch it all burn. It has happened to often in history. That is why we must, at all costs choose the good. Choose love. That is the only way that things can change.
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  #6  
Old 05-06-2010, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sight View Post
There is no prevailing human nature, and I find that "it's just human nature" is an excuse to allow the status quo to continue. To paraphrase from "The Origins of Virtue" by Matt Ridley, mankind is composed of an indeterminable amount of genetic pre-dispositions: tempered with subtle environmental influences. "Human Nature" is a relic of hobbesian thought used to justify the greatest of evils.

Mankind is neither good, nor evil, because there are far more individuals than one can account for in a generalization. Humans respond to stimulus, that much is for certain. Our societies have been constructed, as of late, to break us apart: to make us into gears in the machines. As I believe Alexis de Tocqueville stated(Paraphrased from Memory) ( I may also be wrong on who the author of this quotation is) "The First man to encircle a piece of land, and then sell it to another man doomed humanity". As Ridley also states, in the aforementioned book, we must form our societies into something better, before humanity can become "better".

If we are just monsters, meant to pillage and destroy, there would be no love in this world. No altruism, no kindness to complete strangers, as these would be unaccounted for in the scientific princicple of kin selection. Even on the blackest day, where the greatest of evils scar the land, there is still at least one individual with a fire in their soul that shall not be extinguished.

In short, we must be the change we want to see in the world. We are not monsters, we are men and women. We are neutral, and we have the choice to break the chains and expectations (both good and bad) society places upon us. We have the choice to be simply apes, or something more. The very fact that there are those of us who want to change the societies, and by extention the world, proves that we are not monsters.
I don't really agree with what you said , first I'm not trying to justify our evil ways , I'm just holding the mirror in front of people , but it's normal to reject the truth , in this case , the true face of your own species , sure I'd love to have a world of peace and harmony , but that won't happen because humans need to have that certain thrill that nothing else can give them , that hunger is fueled by evilness , and since evilness is a neverending resource this process can't be stopped , there will always be evil around us .

And I guess you are right , mankind isn't good nor evil , it's addicted , and we all know what addicts are capable of doing to others without remorse in order to get what they desire .

"Even on the blackest day, where the greatest of evils scar the land, there is still at least one individual with a fire in their soul that shall not be extinguished. "

Unluckily these will never be the ones who will have influence on which way mankind will proceed , mankind is a bunch of hipocrits , saying we are good deep in our cores , sure , we could do good but we don't , and the sum of everything we ever did , is just everything but not good , that's an undeniable fact , you are building your argumentation on "yes we could/would/can/if/" , on illusions , things that will never or only happen in small scales.

Look back at the history of mankind and tell me what weighs more , the few outnumbered good things we did to ease our conscience , or the plague we brought upon ourselves and this planet , try to be honest to yourself , and you will see that the plague weighs more and that's what is the identity of man , the sum of our character .

Inside every one of us exists a dark side , nobody can deny that , but you have the choice , and life is full of choices which will in the end lead you to what you are , whether to rise above it or to be consumed by it , most people walk the easy road and just let it happen , only a few do refuse and decide against it .

Again , I'm not promoting to let it continue the way it's been going forever , I'm more or less only an observer with nothing but a mirror in his hands ,reflecting the world you live in and the people within it , of course you can keep believing that things will change like all the people before you did , for my part I've lost my confidence for mankind .
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"In the beginning there was man , and for a time it was good , but humanities so called civil societies soon fell victim to vanity and corruption , then man made the machine in his own likeness , thus would man become the arcitect of his own demise , but for a time it was good"

Last edited by fkeua vrrtep; 05-06-2010 at 10:36 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-06-2010, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fkeua vrrtep View Post
I don't really agree with what you said , first I'm not trying to justify our evil ways , I'm just holding the mirror in front of people , but it's normal to reject the truth , in this case , the true face of your own species , sure I'd love to have a world of peace and harmony , but that won't happen because humans need to have that certain thrill that nothing else can give them , that hunger is fueled by evilness , and since evilness is a neverending resource this process can't be stopped , there will always be evil around us .

And I guess you are right , mankind isn't good nor evil , it's addicted , and we all know what addicts are capable of doing to others without remorse in order to get what they desire .

"Even on the blackest day, where the greatest of evils scar the land, there is still at least one individual with a fire in their soul that shall not be extinguished. "

Unluckily these will never be the ones who will have influence on which way mankind will proceed , mankind is a bunch of hipocrits , saying we are good deep in our cores , sure , we could do good but we don't , and the sum of everything we ever did , is just everything but not good , that's an undeniable fact , you are building your argumentation on "yes we could/would/can/if/" , on illusions , things that will never or only happen in small scales.

Look back at the history of mankind and tell me what weighs more , the few outnumbered good things we did to ease our conscience , or the plague we brought upon ourselves and this planet , try to be honest to yourself , and you will see that the plague weighs more and that's what is the identity of man , the sum of our character .

Inside every one of us exists a dark side , nobody can deny that , but you have the choice , and life is full of choices which will in the end lead you to what you are , whether to rise above it or to be consumed by it , most people walk the easy road and just let it happen , only a few do refuse and decide against it .

Again , I'm not promoting to let it continue the way it's been going forever , I'm more or less only an observer with nothing but a mirror in his hands ,reflecting the world you live in and the people within it , of course you can keep believing that things will change like all the people before you did , for my part I've lost my confidence for mankind .
I am sorry you feel so,

However: All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing: as spoken by Edmund Burke

As long as one man decides he will change, then all is not lost. You are entitled to your own opinions, of course, but I shall never surrender. Even if this is the greatest uphill battle in human history, with the goal at the top of Mount Everest and those who wish to change standing below the Himalayan Plateau, the stakes are too great to simply admit all is lost.

I do, however, take issue with your generalization of mankind. I find it hard to say that all of mankind are two faced beings. Sure, most of mankind is apathetic, in fact I would say ninety eight percent are apathetic. This is, of course, belayed by the one percent who wish to change, and the one percent who wish to preserve the status quo. The complacent indivudals are kept so because they do not realize they can change: that there is something else. They too feel that they are only observers, and that they can not change.

Change for the better can occur, and not the consumerist and heavily politicized change. It is a hard path to follow, but it can be done.
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Last edited by Sight; 05-06-2010 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:57 PM
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I am sorry you feel so,
So am I .
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Old 05-08-2010, 06:40 PM
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The only thing that is constant, is change.

Even the mightiest of buildings have collapsed and warriors of today have fallen under immense stress, pressure, or simply eroded by decay.

This proves therefore, that all structures, all forms are instable and are bound to cease in existence.

Everything in form is impermanent and the formless, what you cannot see yet feel, is ever-present and is within you. It is indestructible and can be felt as pure joy, love, and peace through all living things. It is the essence that contains everything little inconceivable thing in the universe to the biggest.

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