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  #1  
Old 09-01-2010, 09:51 AM
Pamtseo Vitra
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Default The final frontier.

FoW brought up something interesting and I didn't want to turn his thread into a debate so I thought i'd set one up here instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighter-of-Wars
The big thing everyone wants to do is to travel the speed of light. But the reality of it is. That's no where near good enough. Even that fast, do we want to wait 6 years to get to nearby solar systems. Or 1000's of years to do some real exploration? The answer is no. We need to go 10's even hundreds of times faster than the speed of light.
The truths presented in this statement seem to prove to me that space travel is an ultimately futile aim. All it will achieve is to use up our planet's resources in order to not really get very far, or even really discover much. The only way I could actually see this happening is if we 'planet hop' from planet to planet, consuming all the resources of a planet to just build another ship and travel to the next planet. Rinse and repeat. (A very parasitic method, is it not?)

Is it really worth using up this planet to trying to get off it or should we just be contented with simply observing other planets (incidentally, some that we have absolutely no hope of reaching) and work to preserve what we have here?
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Last edited by Fkeu'itan; 09-01-2010 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 09-01-2010, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan View Post

Is it really worth using up this planet to try and get off it or should we just be contented with simply observing other planets (incidentally, some that we have absolutely no hope of reaching) and work to preserve what we have here?

We don't need to 'use up' Earth at all. Our own solar system is filled with reasonably accessible energy and material resources in the form of the sun, asteroids, the gas envelopes of the giant planets etc.
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:27 AM
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But how do we get to those asteroids, those gas pockets in the first place?

I mean, admittledly, if we can harness the massive power of the sun whilst still on our planet with little side-effect, then I suppose that's fair game then. But what i'm getting at is you need to use resources to get resources. Any resources out in space 'don't really matter' as they are and were there all the time and are relatively untapped and abundant. Resources here on Earth, however, are far from abundant - or relatively limitless for that matter and are a part of what we live on, quite literally speaking.

Still though, the question stands;

Is it really worth all the hassle?
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Is it really worth using up this planet to trying to get off it or should we just be contented with simply observing other planets (incidentally, some that we have absolutely no hope of reaching) and work to preserve what we have here?
Space exploration is a worthwhile endeavor for the scientific research opportunities provided and the technological advancements that may trickle down into everyday life. But at the same time humanity has way to many problems that need to be taken care of here on earth. Maybe one day when society has straightened things out down here, we can put all our attention to going "out there".

Quote:
We don't need to 'use up' Earth at all. Our own solar system is filled with reasonably accessible energy and material resources in the form of the sun, asteroids, the gas envelopes of the giant planets etc.
Quoted for truth. The initial leap to colonize space will put a strain on earths resources, but only temporarily. But ISV Venture Star is right, our solar system alone would have mass abundance of usable resources. whether it's right or wrong to just take them, I'm not to sure...
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helicoradian View Post
whether it's right or wrong to just take them, I'm not to sure...

This is the big question. Personally I think it's morally justifiable to use the resources of another body unless that body has been through something like Earth's 'Cambrian explosion.' In which case it should be hands off! So:

Mars - fair game
Pandora - explore but don't damage or exploit.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:53 AM
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Hmm...

The problem with that is, there may be life living on these planets that we don't detect until it's too late. Maybe, we don't detect them at all and succeed in eradicating life on an entire planet 'by accident' without even knowing it.
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:33 PM
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Personally, I feel that acceleration structures are going to be what allows easy space travel. Either through conventional acceleration, or possibly through command of wormholes. Make the trip once, set up a gate, never have to slowboat again.
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan View Post
Hmm...

The problem with that is, there may be life living on these planets that we don't detect until it's too late. Maybe, we don't detect them at all and succeed in eradicating life on an entire planet 'by accident' without even knowing it.

Perhaps, but I think it's important to safeguard Earth's complex biosphere with offworld 'back-ups'
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Old 09-01-2010, 04:23 PM
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The point of space travel is to get somewhere.
How can we go somewhere if we don't know where we're going?
By the time we find somewhere to go (hopefully) we'll have discovered other modes of transportation that won't take a lifetime.
We don't use trees to burn fuel to fire a rocket into space. There are alternatives right now for fuel that are being developed that don't involve 'raping' the planet or any other planet. (Unless one of the gas giants have something odd)
We explore first, then explore some more, then wait for bureaucracy to catch up and delay it another twenty years. In the meantime, other things might happen.
But in the end...as far as going out into space is concerned, I offer this quote:
(I've quoted this before in another thread but it's worth repeating.)

"Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe and Lao-Tzu, Einstein, Morobuto, Buddy Holly, Aristophanes .. and all of this .. all of this was for nothing unless we go to the stars."

Avatar is not a good model to base our future space exploration on, look at other fictional models to see what we can be capable of doing without burning our bridges.
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Old 09-01-2010, 05:47 PM
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Space travel isn't a futile aim, not at all. You can do some serious travel at the speed of light. Does anyone recall General Relativity? At 90% speed of light you can reach the edge of the galaxy in 80 years, 30'000 years to the outside observer. The edge of the galaxy in a human lifetime. Sure, we need energy to do this, a lot of it but that doesn't mean that it's pointless, or impossible. And it doesn't mean we have to do it now either. That's the reason why we're looking for more efficient ways of travel.
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  #11  
Old 09-02-2010, 02:44 AM
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Mars and the moon yes, Humans won't get any further in my mind.
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:54 AM
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Why stop at light?

Spacetime is affected by gravity. Wormholes. Stargates. Parallel universes. Travelling outside the normal three dimensions. All are theoretically viable
Just because we can't go faster in normal 3D space (based on current understanding/theories anyway...) doesn't mean it is impossible
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Old 09-02-2010, 06:35 AM
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I'm sorry, but this is another one of those threads that makes me sick. Don't ever try and stonewall ambition and advancement.
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan View Post
Is it really worth all the hassle?
It's not exactly hurting anyone, I see no reason to put a stop to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aihwa View Post
Personally, I feel that acceleration structures are going to be what allows easy space travel. Either through conventional acceleration, or possibly through command of wormholes. Make the trip once, set up a gate, never have to slowboat again.
It'll still be a long, long time before we travel via wormholes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ba'al View Post
I'm sorry, but this is another one of those threads that makes me sick. Don't ever try and stonewall ambition and advancement.
umad?
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Old 09-04-2010, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeu 'Awpo View Post



umad?
No, that's just blunt old me.
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