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  #1  
Old 09-12-2010, 11:47 AM
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The question is simple:

Should one be able to use others as a means for their own goals, and afterwards bring them part of the benefits obtained? So as long as you can pay them, you can have people at your service doing the work for you.
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:54 AM
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That's how the world works. So yes.
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeu 'Awpo View Post
That's how the world works. So yes.
Hence the "should".

It's a reality; but still questionable.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:04 PM
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Ah... yes, if that's what they want. Otherwise, we would be limited to what a single person can individually do.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
Hence the "should".

It's a reality; but still questionable.
Since the dawn of time, things have done things for other things to get things. It's how it is, it's how it's always been, and it's how (even in fantasy-lands) it always will be.

ie: "Caveman try kill bison, ask friends help, share meat."
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:28 PM
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Well, I agree with Fkeu. It's worked for years.
After all, we can't all be individuals. Someone has to be the working class man.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:18 PM
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So we justify our ideas and actions by their age, the people supporting them or being used to them, right? Let's apply that to religion or old systems such as feudalism...

There must be a better reason to defend an idea.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
There must be a better reason to defend an idea.
No person can or wants to do everything. There is your reason.
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:23 PM
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Working together, helping each other is all right. Usually it's just that.. the one who works harder gets less profit.
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  #10  
Old 09-12-2010, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
The question is simple:

Should one be able to use others as a means for their own goals, and afterwards bring them part of the benefits obtained? So as long as you can pay them, you can have people at your service doing the work for you.
What you describe isn't true employment, first example that comes to mind are pimps and their girls. They do all the work, he benefits from their nightly walks and pays them what he wants (or they keep a part of what they earn). That's not true employment.
Drug lords who have street dealers and underlings selling all over the city and then take their money back to the boss and then he shares the drugs and the money.
That is not employment.

The simple accepted definition of modern employment is:

"when someone is paid to work for a company or organization"

Here is your key phrase:
Should one be able to use others as a means for their own goals,

That is not employment.
That is another situation entirely.

I had to leave to go to work this morning and therefore couldn't finish what I was typing.
Unfortunately, now that I am home, of course I have forgotten the rest of my point I was making. Oh well.
Whether this is a situation that you are in, or someone is proposing it, just keep in mind that if they call it 'working for me', and there is no way of holding them accountable for what they are going to give to you... don't consider it 'employment'.
It is someone hoping to take advantage of someone else for their own gain. That is not entrepeneurship (don't know how to spell that one) it is a lazy person's way of working.
Huckleberry Finn, getting all his friends to paint a fence while he scoots off and has fun.
I won't harp on this anymore.
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2010, 04:44 PM
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In my personal opinion, that really depends on what the aim for the individual and what the workers will get in return for their work. If the aim is wholesome and the reward for all is suitable, then i'd have to say yes.
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  #12  
Old 09-13-2010, 12:25 PM
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It's not a question of age, it's a question of choice.
If people WANT to work, who are you to stop them?
If they know there can be another way, but they choose to take that way, then really, that is their choice.
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2010, 10:32 PM
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As I've said though, we can't all be individuals. We need store clerks and bus drivers just as much as CEOs.

That's why University is 'oh so important.'
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  #14  
Old 09-14-2010, 09:11 AM
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You must always find a point where you can draw the line between what is an individuals free will and what makes a functional society. Unfortunately without the stereotypical pecking order of human society the human race would cease to function. Of course employment is right, you must remember that nearly everything in life works around the laws of biology. Although our technology is starting to render them obsolete. Each species on the planet will have a dynamic society, for example bees have several different classes. They have the Queen, nest finders, workers ect.... This same template can be applied to human society. Of course we should never be denied the opportunity to be an employer rather than an employee. Sometimes though, your life can be largely pre-determined. Follow this example:

e.g, Bee larvae are largely the same at any one time, but throughout their maturation period their life is pre-determined already at this point in time. This is due to temperature. A larvae just a degree celcius warmer than the rest will have a high place in the heirarchy. But a larvae a degree colder will have a much lower place and will be relegated to nest duties. Human society can work the same, someone born to a higher class household will on average have a better chance in life than someone born to a lower class household.

You can turn this into a philosophical matter but I don't think it's necessary. This one can be answered using the laws of the Universe and that's just the way things are. But then again we're entering an age of enlightenment, (supposedly, I think it's more of an idiocracy) but I must stress, if you want to change something for the better; show me the alternatives.
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  #15  
Old 09-18-2010, 01:51 AM
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Unfortunately what you say is true. One thing about being paid "under the counter" as its called. It's technically not employment because its illegal. But in all honesty how many people on these forums age 25 or older can say with honesty that they have never been paid under the table? I'm 17 and have been paid under the table for labor and services. Its always been a part of life and always will be, the trade of services. Our governments try to regulate it but it will happen no matter what.
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