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Old 09-27-2010, 02:50 AM
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Default The Death Penalty

Honestly I believe in it. I believe that if someone commits a crime hanus enough they deserve it. I believe rape is an offense worth death, because it can drastically effect someones life and in the end ruin the majority of there life. I also believe murder should be punished by murder. You have no right to take ones life unless your fighting for your own.

I know this is kind of a morbid topic, i was just wondering what you guys thought.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:14 AM
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I do, but don't. I think sometimes its hard to justify wether it is right to do so or not.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:20 AM
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Well the thing about rape is that when the girl says it happened, no one will believe the guy when he says she wanted it (in case that's true). Also I think that you cannot judge murder like that in general, of course you're right when you say that no one has the right to kill someone, but I think there is so much variables in the reasons behind it, that you cannot just say kill everyone who did it. So no and yes, I'm against the death penalty as a usual means to punish for these crimes, but there are certainly cases where it would be suitable.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rasomaso View Post
Well the thing about rape is that when the girl says it happened, no one will believe the guy when he says she wanted it (in case that's true). Also I think that you cannot judge murder like that in general, of course you're right when you say that no one has the right to kill someone, but I think there is so much variables in the reasons behind it, that you cannot just say kill everyone who did it. So no and yes, I'm against the death penalty as a usual means to punish for these crimes, but there are certainly cases where it would be suitable.
Yeah it definitely depends on the situation, I guess that's the jury's job is to hash everything out. But they definitely make mistakes, no systems perfect i guess.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Neytiri. View Post
I also believe murder should be punished by murder.
Well, there's a big difference between murder and execution.

But yes, I pretty-much agree with your stance on this subject. The death penalty is a justice method of ridding the world of people who are likely to commit the crime again ("the crime", meaning something that actually deserves a penalty as serious as death), and/or people who have done something so inexcusable that the only reasonable thing to do, as dictated by the society or the laws that govern the people, is to dictate a punishment that fits the crime. In the case of murder, death with death. Though, I do agree that there are forms of murder that don't deserve such a punishment, obviously.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 09-27-2010 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:35 AM
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I am against the death penatly. It does not deter crime. The only reason for having the death penalty seems to be revenge. Why kill when you can achieve the same through prison? Most criminals consider life in prison to be a far worse fate than death and it costs a lot more to put a person to death than to put a person in prison for life. If anything the speed at which justice is handed out tends to affect crime rate more. Now the penalty for a crime does have an effect but once you reach a certain point, the diminishing returns are so small as to become negligable.

Last edited by Banefull; 09-27-2010 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:11 AM
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I've got to say that I'm pretty much with Baneful on this one.

I'm in California and we have the death penalty here. However, it takes over 10 years and an insane amount of money to actually put a convicted criminal to death. It's much less expensive to just lock them up for the rest of their lives. For me this trumps any other of the points of argument.

There was a death penalty back before the legal system became what it is today. In the 19th century a person was executed within days of a sentence being handed down. That was a death penalty. Now we have a goldmine for lawyers.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by txen View Post
I've got to say that I'm pretty much with Baneful on this one.

I'm in California and we have the death penalty here. However, it takes over 10 years and an insane amount of money to actually put a convicted criminal to death. It's much less expensive to just lock them up for the rest of their lives. For me this trumps any other of the points of argument.

There was a death penalty back before the legal system became what it is today. In the 19th century a person was executed within days of a sentence being handed down. That was a death penalty. Now we have a goldmine for lawyers.

This.

Its far more efficient to keep them away from society for the rest of their lives. It also deny's them attention, which some crave.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:22 AM
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...Unless you're talking about a criminally insane convict that doesn't care about death, but rather publicity that goes with it.

No sane convict cares about attention when he's going to die; he cares about his life. And wouldn't keeping a prisoner alive for 25+ years just cost a ton more money than just killing him? That, coupled with the fact that it's possible for him to appeal after at least 2 years (for a serious crime) and has the chance to be released, only to risk harming the society again by committing another crime... perhaps the same kind he was imprisoned for in the first place.

It's mostly about prevention from further crimes of the same caliber, not "inciting fear in other criminals". You release a child molestor for instance. Then he goes out and does the same thing again. Or a murderer repeating his crime. This is pretty-much why the death penalty exists, folks.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
...Unless you're talking about a criminally insane convict that doesn't care about death, but rather publicity that goes with it.

No sane convict cares about attention when he's going to die; he cares about his life. And wouldn't keeping a prisoner alive for 25+ years just cost a ton more money than just killing him? That, coupled with the fact that it's possible for him to appeal after at least 2 years (for a serious crime) and has the chance to be released, only to risk harming the society again by committing another crime... perhaps the same kind he was imprisoned for in the first place.

It's mostly about prevention from further crimes of the same caliber, not "inciting fear in other criminals". You release a child molestor for instance. Then he goes out and does the same thing again. Or a murderer repeating his crime. This is pretty-much why the death penalty exists, folks.


To execute or not: A question of cost? - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com


Do you realise how much money it costs for us to kill somebody? Millions of dollars, appeal after appeal after appeal, with taxpayers dollars the whole way. This is a simple way for states to balance budgets. But of course, peoples bloodlust wont get satisfied this way...

Also, Life without parole means just that, life without parole. Done deal, he'd have to be acquitted of the crime he was convicted of in the first place to win his appeal. Which probably means he was innocent in the first place if that happens, which is of course why appeals exist, because mistakes do happen.


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

It costs more than 37 million dollars to execute somebody in maryland.
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Last edited by Isard; 09-27-2010 at 08:33 AM.
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  #11  
Old 09-27-2010, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Aihwa View Post
To execute or not: A question of cost? - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com


Do you realise how much money it costs for us to kill somebody? Millions of dollars, appeal after appeal after appeal, with taxpayers dollars the whole way. This is a simple way for states to balance budgets. But of course, peoples bloodlust wont get satisfied this way...

Also, Life without parole means just that, life without parole. Done deal, he'd have to be acquitted of the crime he was convicted of in the first place to win his appeal. Which probably means he was innocent in the first place if that happens, which is of course why appeals exist, because mistakes do happen.


Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

It costs more than 37 million dollars to execute somebody in maryland.
I believe in the death penalty, and i believe it should be swift. The day after the judgment is passed.

Just thinking about it this way, if someone killed your child, you wouldn't want them put to death? I would find it hard not killing them myself.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:17 AM
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I am not sure about the death penalty. I believe in an eye for an eye, if you murder somebody (excusing self-defence of course) then you should be killed in the exact same way I think. We know the criminal is gone for ever and so cannot ever re-offend or escape prison. Not only this but it would reduce the amount of prisons needed which would save money and we could have some nice forests in their place Prison is not nearly terrible enough (in Britain anyway) some prisons evidently have decent meals and Playstation 2s! What is going on there!

On the other hand, if somebody is wrongly convicted the punishment cannot be turned back. You can release somebody from prison but cannot bring them back from the dead.

If nobody was ever wrongly convicted then I would say hell yeah, go death penalty but until then perhaps prisons could just be a bit more unpleasant.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aihwa View Post
To execute or not: A question of cost? - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com


Do you realise how much money it costs for us to kill somebody? Millions of dollars, appeal after appeal after appeal, with taxpayers dollars the whole way. This is a simple way for states to balance budgets. But of course, peoples bloodlust wont get satisfied this way...
So, my take is, you oppose the death penalty... because it costs a lot of money?

What if it didn't? Would you oppose it then? I gladly pay taxes for such costs precisely because it gets the job done on these people. It's far better than paying taxes to support all the illegals getting benefits in the country, which costs billions more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aihwa View Post
Also, Life without parole means just that, life without parole. Done deal, he'd have to be acquitted of the crime he was convicted of in the first place to win his appeal. Which probably means he was innocent in the first place if that happens, which is of course why appeals exist, because mistakes do happen.
Not as often as not.

Fact remains that whenever a life sentence is sought with no attempt to bother with the death penalty, the defendant usually never serves life without parole. 28% of all lifers in prison as of now actually have such a sentence imposed upon them; it's not common. For instance, don't expect a habitual rapist or child molester to serve such a term.

Besides, I'd rather execute those murderers and rapists who deserve such punishment, instead of sending them to prison where they can eat first class meals, watch HD television, surf the web, and play video games.

...For free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aihwa View Post
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

It costs more than 37 million dollars to execute somebody in maryland.
Of course, failing to mention the fact of how only 5 of the 162 capital cases actually had the death penalty carried out. Not including the 5, 101 of the other capital cases tried to carry out the death penalty, but gave up. Over 50 cases never attempted to carry out capital punishment.

Also failing to mention how the study was a hypothetical estimation, which concluded that $186 million would be spent if all 162 capital cases tried to carry out the death penalty... which isn't what happened. The cost of executing someone in Maryland is around $3 million, not $37 million. Try reading the entire article next time.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:43 PM
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Here are my views on the subject:

Of course, in the moment of an attack, a victim has the right to defend themselves by whatever means they can. But I think, even for a person convicted for murder, no one has the right to take the life of another person. Exceptions could only be made in absolutely necessary situations, such as someone threating a nation's security.

This obviously also applies to the murderer, but 50+ years in jail seems worse than a quick death to me. Would you rather die quickly, or be in solitary for the rest of your life?
I also think that execution would be a waste. A suitable alternative would be forcing the convicted person/s into the labour force, in whatever industry is needed. It'd save (possibly make more) money then execution, and we'd find a use for these people, instead of wasting space with their bodies.

Another way of punishing criminals would be to suit their prison treatment to their crime, possibly making a class system for the jail. For example: Minor offenders would have ordinary cells, ordinary treatment. Major offenders, such as people convicted of assault or rape, would have less rations and be used in labour. Very serious offenders, such as serial killers or terrorists, would be in solitary cells, and only be given one meal a day.

It's so simple even a politician could do it. That is, if they actually listened to us instead of imposing higher taxes and promising useless changes to our nation's society.

I understand that it would cost money to make these changes, but I believe it could contribute to a better justice system.
Edit: That's the longest response I've ever written.
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:08 PM
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Well, seems like you got it all figured out.

Still saying, though... even if all people with life sentences had life without parole (which isn't the case most of the time... in the U.S., anyway), there's the problem of how people in prison usually have more fun in prison than they do out in the real world. Quoting myself,

Quote:
"I'd rather execute those murderers and rapists who deserve such punishment, instead of sending them to prison where they can eat first class meals, watch HD television, surf the web, and play video games.

...For free."
But your method works pretty well by itself. ...If only it were that simple, though. As of the current overall system, though, capital punishment is really the better way to ensure that the convicted never commit the crime again. Sure, it doesn't help with stopping crime, but it does help with stopping crime by that person. And by the word "crime", I mean "crime worthy of death".

EDIT: And congratulations on your first "lengthy" post.

...This is the longest one you've written? Really?

Last edited by Woodsprite; 09-27-2010 at 01:11 PM.
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