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  #61  
Old 01-29-2011, 04:40 AM
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Atheism isn't a religion. It is the lack of one (Greek prefix 'a-' = without). There is no doctrine, no worship, no central authority or bank account, no inquisition.
That is why I always say I am atheist and if anyone says 'an' atheist, I correct them.
Other than that, with the control side, you're completely right.
"Christianity was created by some decadent and degenerated Romans as a tool of oppression, in the late Roman era, and it should be treated accordingly. It is like handcuffs to the mind and spirit and is nothing but destructive to mankind. "
A part of one of my favourite quotes. There is more of that quote, but I'm not going to post the rest here or it will just spark an argument, although the rest is easy enough to find if you're interested.
You're right that a person could have existed, maybe gathered followers, was probably a skilled public speaker, but did not have supernatural powers - although even as a book of historical record, the bible is dubious due to having been written several hundred years after the supposed events. In the end, religion is only a problem when people interpret it literally and wish it upon other people.
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  #62  
Old 01-29-2011, 04:43 AM
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Never cared much about religion, sounds just not really believable, nothing more to add.
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  #63  
Old 01-29-2011, 05:26 AM
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Man, you really never took a theology class...
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  #64  
Old 01-29-2011, 05:29 AM
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Atheists are way more annoying that Christians. I find that atheists are way more eager to try and argue there's no God and be totally self-righteous, than christians are to convert people.
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  #65  
Old 01-29-2011, 05:34 AM
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  #66  
Old 01-29-2011, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
Atheism isn't a religion. It is the lack of one (Greek prefix 'a-' = without). There is no doctrine, no worship, no central authority or bank account, no inquisition.
I agree that atheism is not a religion. It can be a characteristic of a religion, but in and of itself it is simply a belief (or lack there of).

With that said, there are plenty of people, both present and throughout history, that have (had) no problems between their religious beliefs and with science. I always thought if there is a god of some sort, that science is simply the understanding and study of this god's creation. In other words, the build up of knowledge through science brings one closer to understanding the creation of this god. The problems I usually see is with people that already have concrete views on god and religion that may be contradicted by the findings of science.

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Atheists are way more annoying that Christians. I find that atheists are way more eager to try and argue there's no God and be totally self-righteous, than christians are to convert people.
At least it may seem that way on the internet. I would bet life outside the internet is a whole other issue, at least stemming from the number of atheists I know that have been shunned by loved ones for the simple fact that they are an atheist.
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  #67  
Old 01-29-2011, 05:40 AM
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At least it may seem that way on the internet. I would bet life outside the internet is a whole other issue, at least stemming from the number of atheists I know that have been shunned by loved ones for the simple fact that they are an atheist.
Oh please. As a christian, I am annoyed by fundamentalist christians. But I have not yet met an atheist who did not feel the need to debate (aside from a very small number).
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  #68  
Old 01-29-2011, 05:46 AM
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...and aside from a small number, I have not met a christian who did not feel the need to shout it from the rooftops.
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  #69  
Old 01-29-2011, 05:46 AM
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Oh please. As a christian, I am annoyed by fundamentalist christians. But I have not yet met an atheist who did not feel the need to debate (aside from a very small number).
Maybe the only atheists you notice are those that do debate the existence of a god. I have met plenty that couldn't care less about the whole god thing (it just doesn't interest them).
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
"Christianity was created by some decadent and degenerated Romans as a tool of oppression, in the late Roman era, and it should be treated accordingly. It is like handcuffs to the mind and spirit and is nothing but destructive to mankind."
And what about the earlier period when Christianity was persecuted by the Romans?

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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
You're right that a person could have existed, maybe gathered followers, was probably a skilled public speaker, but did not have supernatural powers.

We know that a historical Jesus existed. The Romans kept excellent legal records.

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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
although even as a book of historical record, the bible is dubious due to having been written several hundred years after the supposed events.
Not all books were written with the intent of being historical accounts. We know for a fact that Chronicles, Kings, etc were written shortly after the events occurred. They did happen.

As for the Genesis stories, the people living back then didn't take the stories literally. They were written with various symbolic intents. If you ever take classes in studying ancient texts, you can easily see how the literary devices match up and how a person living 3000 years ago would have read them differently than a modern interpretation.

Unfortunately today, many people read the Bible as if it was written recently. A good case example is the serpent in Genesis. Most people interpret that as Satan. When that story was written, the Isrealites did not even have a concept of a Satan. Too often people just take taking modern symbolism and insert it into a text written for people living thousands of years ago. The second Genesis creation story was written aorund the time of the Babylonian exile (emphasis on exile to the west) and the first creation story was written around the time of the Maccabean revolt (emphasis on the importance of the Sabbath).

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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
...and aside from a small number, I have not met a christian who did not feel the need to shout it from the rooftops.
I have yet to meet one who does.

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In the end, religion is only a problem when people wish it upon other people.
The Trap of Tolerance

Last edited by Banefull; 01-29-2011 at 03:46 PM.
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  #71  
Old 01-29-2011, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
...and aside from a small number, I have not met a christian who did not feel the need to shout it from the rooftops.
You don't get out much.

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Originally Posted by iron_jones View Post
Oh please. As a christian, I am annoyed by fundamentalist christians. But I have not yet met an atheist who did not feel the need to debate (aside from a very small number).
You're a Christian?!

Wow... I have never known.
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  #72  
Old 01-29-2011, 06:27 AM
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You don't get out much.
To be fair, they are all on the internet, which isn't probably particularly representative. Either way, I don't feel any need to go around telling people my own views unnecessarily, although I am not afraid to respond to a point with my own view when needed. I go out a lot, it's just that the people I know AFK are not the christian type, instead valuing individuality and freedom
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  #73  
Old 01-29-2011, 06:39 AM
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Speaking as someone who lives in comparatively irreligious countries like the UK and Australia, it's great to be amongst people for whom 'don't care/not religious/agnostic/atheist' is the assumed default rather than some kind of aberration. America is an odd place in many ways.
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  #74  
Old 01-29-2011, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
To be fair, they are all on the internet, which isn't probably particularly representative. Either way, I don't feel any need to go around telling people my own views unnecessarily, although I am not afraid to respond to a point with my own view when needed. I go out a lot, it's just that the people I know AFK are not the christian type, instead valuing individuality and freedom
Yeah, I think we all, when either talking face-to-face or just talking, tend to not mention our beliefs. Or else when we do, we do so casually and don't linger with the subject. Like when you and I used to talk on Skype, we never mentioned our beliefs; we were both mellow when it came to religion, atheism, moral standards, etc. Same went for everyone else.

It's our voices, I think, that breaks the tension, since we gain some knowledge of how the other person "rolls" concerning talking points. You can sort of "tell" a person's attitude by their voice, and what kind of words they use.
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  #75  
Old 01-29-2011, 02:31 PM
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I never feel the need to mention my beliefs unless I'm asked for them... Though I find it particularly important to never *indirectly* refer to your beliefs too. Otherwise it sparks a debate.

If I'm speaking to say.... a... I don't know. A Muslim- And they say "Well thank Allah that we even get the chance eh?" - That's one thing I really can't personally stand. Same with Christianity saying "god bless you" and other such things. I quite frankly don't care if their intentions are good and caring for my well-being, I'm close-minded in the sense that I see that as an indirect assertion of beliefs.

I *detest* labelling myself, but when asked, and after about a 20 minute explanation in real life of trying to convince them WHY I don't like labels- I usually give up and just say "Ok, whatever. Just call me a Nihilist. That's the closest you're going to get."

Now, I would never say "Thank the void for this opportunity." simply because it would be hypocritical of myself to say something like that, seeing as I detest the notion so strongly.

But- Back to the point- I've met a lot of Christians who are very happy not to mention their beliefs. Can't say I know any Muslims personally... Or anything else.. I know a lot of Atheists... And agnostics... But.. In all honesty- All of them can be as bad as each other at times.

I can be a terrible person when I lose sense of myself...

In essence- It's what you learn from about the age of... 12? - *Not everyone thinks the same as you. If someone is against what you think, it's not wrong.*

Some people seem to have such an issue with realising the principle of subjectivity.
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