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  #31  
Old 12-14-2010, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sothis View Post
I don't see anything wrong with lust being a primary reason for *starting* a relationship. I will say, though, that relationships tend to *endure* for reasons other than lust alone.
Well said. It even *IS* possible to maintain one in the long term based primarily on physical affection, that is just of little interest to most people. For most people, there needs to be a balance of all components to be successful, including physical and emotional.
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  #32  
Old 12-14-2010, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ISV Venture Star View Post
Mutual lust is probably a better foundation than economic disparity.
Hear, hear!
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  #33  
Old 12-14-2010, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
No, lust is physical attraction. It can be a part of a larger whole or not. Huge difference there

Some people just don't like to accept that there IS a physical component to love. After all, otherwise, sentient beings would never survive.

Lust is more than physical attraction. This is the dictionary.com's definition of it:


lust
  –noun
1.
intense sexual desire or appetite.
2.
uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.
3.
a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually fol. by for ): a lust for power.
4.
ardent enthusiasm; zest; relish: an enviable lust for life.
5.
Obsolete .
a.
pleasure or delight.
b.
desire; inclination; wish.
–verb (used without object)
6.
to have intense sexual desire.
7.
to have a yearning or desire; have a strong or excessive craving (often fol. by for or after ).

It is uncontrollable sexual desire which, if not tempered by love, can lead to a person seeing the man/woman as an object for their own sexual gratification. This isn't the same as physical attraction which is necessary for a relationship to start nor is it the same in regards to sexual desire combined with a deep meaningful relationship. Its the difference between a man looking at a woman on the street or in a magazine and thinking that he wants her, etc and a man wanting to have sex with the woman that he loves because he knows her. She isn't a fantasy, a figment.

I do agree that there is a physical component to love. Afterall, we are made up of both body and spirit and love must be shown in various ways, including the physical. I guess what I don't agree with is the idea that gets expressed that a relationship can last entirely on physical attraction alone. I know that you didn't say that. In fact, I agree with your other post about the need for the relationship to comprise of the physical and emotional. My problem is that in today's society, too many relationships are built on physical attraction alone and that doesn't last because people won't look the same way forever. We all get old, gain weight, get wrinkles, etc. So the attraction must be deeper than just the surface.
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  #34  
Old 12-15-2010, 12:10 AM
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In your opinion. Nowhere in that does it say that it is mutually exclusive to love. People have biological urges, which have been programmed over millions of years to ensure their own survival. Denying them is not healthy.

Intensity does not mean it is the only thing there is. If anything, intensity is good as it can also bring people closer together.
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  #35  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:04 AM
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I think this thread has more or less reached a consensus, and now it's turning into a semantics debate. I propose we abandon this hair-splitting exercise, which is boring, and have sex instead.
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How do you make up after you've done the unforgivable? Jake and Neytiri have a conversation in the wake of Hometree's destruction, during their first real moment alone following his return as Toruk Makto.

The Last Train Home
Fourteen years after the war, a lone spaceship appears in the sky. The former members of the Avatar program watch its approach – expecting the worst, fearing for their adopted home. Then the ship lands. And suddenly, nothing makes sense anymore.

Five seconds too late
This is a different kind of Jake/Neytiri romance, the story that would've unfolded had she been delayed for just five seconds while trying to reach him following the fight with Quaritch.
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  #36  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
In your opinion.
I was just proposing a different word for it since lust can have connotations of objectifying a person but I grant it is just my opinion.

Quote:
Nowhere in that does it say that it is mutually exclusive to love. People have biological urges, which have been programmed over millions of years to ensure their own survival. Denying them is not healthy.

I agree but I also believe they must be carried out in their proper context. We all have the urge to eat but eating uncontrollably will make us sick. The same is true for drinking and even for sex. Since sex involves two people who are completely intimate with each other, it is best in a completely mutual self-giving instead of looking at the other person as an object for self-gratification. I have often heard the term lust involving those connotations.


Quote:
Intensity does not mean it is the only thing there is. If anything, intensity is good as it can also bring people closer together.
I agree too but the intensity should be as a result of true intimate love and not to only satisfy urges. I guess its a man/woman thing. I see sex as very emotionally intense and should be used in the context of love and self-giving whereas men often see sex as just an urge to be satisfied. I know that isn't always the case and it can also be the case with women as well but generally speaking, women see sex as as way to foster a more emotional and intimate bond which requires love of the person as a person and not an object to satisfy one's own personal urges.
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  #37  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sothis View Post
I think this thread has more or less reached a consensus, and now it's turning into a semantics debate. I propose we abandon this hair-splitting exercise, which is boring, and have sex instead.
LOL You are probably right, insofar as the thread is becoming a hair-splitting exercise.
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  #38  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Rainbowhawk1993 View Post
...One example was when I wrote about the extended mating scene when I saw the SE, some people were writing about if Jake was having dirty thoughts before the connetion. I disturbed me because it just spoils the feeling of deep emotion and love...
That was me lol. Sorry.
I'm not lustful though, I'm just too random for my own good.

Anyway, I think the difference between lust and love is pretty easy to find. Loving their physical body, for example, can be seen as lust. Beauty can be appreciated, for sure, but appreciation and love are two different things.

Love is of course, loving the person for who they are inside. Their personality. Their feelings. All that you'd here in a romantic letter.

Trivial things though, such as loving someone's eyes, or smile, are a bit harder to decipher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
Nowhere in that does it say that it is mutually exclusive to love. People have biological urges, which have been programmed over millions of years to ensure their own survival. Denying them is not healthy.
Yes, but over millions of years. I'd say, seeing our current population, sex is more of a privilege than a requirement.
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  #39  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:10 PM
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Physical and emotional attraction hardly mean anything. No balance of them is going to ensure your relationship lasts. You can be beautiful to each other, your personalities can be made for each other; however, it won't last if either side is unwilling to make sacrifices for each other. Trust is what holds a relationship together. You make sacrifices because you place trust in your partner.

Marriage is a commitment to trust each other. Each side makes vows in good faith that they will be honored. There are times when a couple will not lust nor love each other. There are times when they may argue, quarrel, fight, yell, scream, but the relationship still endures because that trust remains.

Just because I do not love my partner anymore is not a reason to go to the closest lawyer and file for a divorce. If I entered into marriage, I made a commitment to stay through both the good times and the bad. I have responsibility and a promise to keep. It is when my partner violates that trust, that I can then seek divorce. If my partner goes out with someone else, that is infidelity, that is breaking that trust.

The perfect example of how trust works is when Jake reveals his mission to Neytiri. To quote her reply, "I trusted you...." shows that the trust they placed between them from the beginning was broken, violated by Jake. They left each other both in mind and body (the avatar link was cancelled; a true testament to the symbolism within the movie) and remained seperate until that trust could be restored.

Love is what starts a relationship. Trust is what sustains it.

Last edited by Banefull; 12-15-2010 at 10:44 PM.
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  #40  
Old 12-16-2010, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banefull View Post
Physical and emotional attraction hardly mean anything. No balance of them is going to ensure your relationship lasts. You can be beautiful to each other, your personalities can be made for each other; however, it won't last if either side is unwilling to make sacrifices for each other. Trust is what holds a relationship together. You make sacrifices because you place trust in your partner.

Marriage is a commitment to trust each other. Each side makes vows in good faith that they will be honored. There are times when a couple will not lust nor love each other. There are times when they may argue, quarrel, fight, yell, scream, but the relationship still endures because that trust remains.

Just because I do not love my partner anymore is not a reason to go to the closest lawyer and file for a divorce. If I entered into marriage, I made a commitment to stay through both the good times and the bad. I have responsibility and a promise to keep. It is when my partner violates that trust, that I can then seek divorce. If my partner goes out with someone else, that is infidelity, that is breaking that trust.

The perfect example of how trust works is when Jake reveals his mission to Neytiri. To quote her reply, "I trusted you...." shows that the trust they placed between them from the beginning was broken, violated by Jake. They left each other both in mind and body (the avatar link was cancelled; a true testament to the symbolism within the movie) and remained seperate until that trust could be restored.

Love is what starts a relationship. Trust is what sustains it.
Hmmm. This doesn't really bode well for me since I doubt I could truly trust someone. For instance, I will almost certainly keep the bulk of my financial assets somewhere only I can access them, due to the very real possibility that my future wife would try to make a quick profit prior to a divorce- think of Lon, the administrator of Avatar Forums.
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  #41  
Old 12-16-2010, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banefull View Post
Physical and emotional attraction hardly mean anything. No balance of them is going to ensure your relationship lasts. You can be beautiful to each other, your personalities can be made for each other; however, it won't last if either side is unwilling to make sacrifices for each other. Trust is what holds a relationship together. You make sacrifices because you place trust in your partner.

Marriage is a commitment to trust each other. Each side makes vows in good faith that they will be honored. There are times when a couple will not lust nor love each other. There are times when they may argue, quarrel, fight, yell, scream, but the relationship still endures because that trust remains.

Just because I do not love my partner anymore is not a reason to go to the closest lawyer and file for a divorce. If I entered into marriage, I made a commitment to stay through both the good times and the bad. I have responsibility and a promise to keep. It is when my partner violates that trust, that I can then seek divorce. If my partner goes out with someone else, that is infidelity, that is breaking that trust.

The perfect example of how trust works is when Jake reveals his mission to Neytiri. To quote her reply, "I trusted you...." shows that the trust they placed between them from the beginning was broken, violated by Jake. They left each other both in mind and body (the avatar link was cancelled; a true testament to the symbolism within the movie) and remained seperate until that trust could be restored.

Love is what starts a relationship. Trust is what sustains it.
Well Said Banefull
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I'll be by your side
There will be no empty home
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  #42  
Old 12-16-2010, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advent View Post
Yes, but over millions of years. I'd say, seeing our current population, sex is more of a privilege than a requirement.
You confuse sex with reproduction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stdout View Post
Hmmm. This doesn't really bode well for me since I doubt I could truly trust someone. For instance, I will almost certainly keep the bulk of my financial assets somewhere only I can access them, due to the very real possibility that my future wife would try to make a quick profit prior to a divorce- think of Lon, the administrator of Avatar Forums.
Same here... (not that I actually care about marriage, even if I do find a lifemate then I don't need to say some magic words to prove that we love each other), but some people do unfortunately use others to get what they want. Some trust is obviously important but it can be taken too far or abused.
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  #43  
Old 12-17-2010, 06:37 PM
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Oxytocin does a pretty good job too.
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  #44  
Old 12-17-2010, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banefull View Post

Love is what starts a relationship. Trust is what sustains it.
True, yes. But you can't sustain a loveless relationship.

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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
You confuse sex with reproduction.
And sex can lead to?
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  #45  
Old 12-17-2010, 10:46 PM
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First there is intercourse, then it can either be for just sex or just reproduction (or both). Sex can be a lot of things besides "regular sex" for a person. My way of seeing it.
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Last edited by LOVEavatar; 12-17-2010 at 11:01 PM.
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