Social, Economic and Political Perfectionism. - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
Go Back   Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum » General Forums » Debate

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-02-2011, 08:18 AM
Spock's Avatar
Ikran Makto
Spock is hopeful.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Posts: 886
Default Social, Economic and Political Perfectionism.

I think we need to look deeper at what constitutes a successful civilisation, is it sustainability? Ambition? Equality?

Looking at these individually shows us that the Na'vi are not a perfect civilisation, but neither is humanity, from a human standpoint. The Na'vi lack ambition almost completely, however the maintain a sustainable society whereas we don't. By my logic I find the Na'vi less than perfect, I can say the same about humanity.

In the pursuit of perfection we must formulate hybrid social, economic and political structures.
__________________
Live long and prosper

Last edited by Spock; 02-10-2011 at 07:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-02-2011, 08:25 AM
Woodsprite's Avatar
Olo'eyktan
Woodsprite is very busy.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 3,172
Default

The Na'vi lack any advancement because they are in direct contact with their deity. There's no need for them (in their mindset) to advance because "Eywa will provide". If humans had the same connection to God, we'd be the same.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-02-2011, 08:28 AM
Tsyal Makto's Avatar
Tsulfätu
Tsyal Makto glad to be home!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Body - Chicago, Spirit - Pandora
Posts: 1,873
Default

I'd say the pinnacle of a species would be one that is able to become space-fairing without destroying the home-world in the process.

Whether that is possible is a whole 'nother matter completely. Which of those two options people value more (space travel vs the planet) is more of a personal matter of opinion.

I'd say the best route for humanity to go would be a resource-based economy. Lest we be destroyed by greed-driven, speculative trading (which is the inherent, destructive problem of a currency-based system).

The Venus Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My $0.02.
__________________


The Dreamer's Manifesto

Mike Malloy, a voice of reason in a world gone mad.

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden

Last edited by Tsyal Makto; 02-02-2011 at 08:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-02-2011, 04:13 PM
Banefull's Avatar
Ikran Makto
Banefull has a status.
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 814
Send a message via Skype™ to Banefull
Default

Society is a reflection of our values. Ask someone here, across the globe, or across the universe what constitues a perfect society and you will get different asnwers. Taking the subjectivist stance here, everyone has their vision of what constitutes a perfect world. Ghandhi had his vision but so did Hitler. Some would consider a shopping mall to be a great achievement, others would call it a tragedy.

In short, perfection is how close society reflects a group of people's values. Society is whatever we want it to be.

Last edited by Banefull; 02-02-2011 at 04:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-02-2011, 11:00 PM
Human No More's Avatar
Toruk Makto, Admin
Human No More has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In a datacentre
Posts: 11,751
Default

Success is stability. The ability to survive indefinitely, and doing so. Ambition is for its own sake and not indicative of success.

Woodsprite - you can't really compare a planet with no sentience to a world where just about every living thing is part of a neural network.
__________________
...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-02-2011, 11:18 PM
Woodsprite's Avatar
Olo'eyktan
Woodsprite is very busy.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 3,172
Default

I meant from their perspective as compared to ours, not necessarily the way things really are.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:36 AM
James of terra's Avatar
Taronyu
James of terra Lost on Pandora
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ontario, Canada
Posts: 498
Default

Well to be success, has to be a group effort. Indivials, will not succed in the long run, everyone must work together, to change things. I think Habits of greed and waste must change and Technolgy, to help find better alteratives.
__________________

Terrans always learn the hardway.
SEATTLE PICS at http://my.imageshack.us/v_images.php
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-03-2011, 05:56 AM
Raptor's Avatar
Fast mover
Raptor has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Quantico, VA
Posts: 401
Default

I somehow think that the Na'vi will start pursuing some form of technology after they saw the destruction wreaked by the RDA. It would be prudent of them to formulate some form of sophisticated defense against the humans. Better be safe than sorry, and the battle for the Tree of Souls was awfully close. Too close for my liking. I do not like the enormous Na'vi casualties at all, and they and the entire moon of Pandora simply can't fight a war of attrition against the human-made weapons.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-03-2011, 07:33 AM
Woodsprite's Avatar
Olo'eyktan
Woodsprite is very busy.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 3,172
Default

And thus, from the development of technology, they will begin to become more like us. Even for the best intentions, the Na'vi, if headed towards a more fortified set of clans, will become like us. It's only a matter of time if they embrace advanced technology.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-03-2011, 07:55 AM
Raptor's Avatar
Fast mover
Raptor has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Quantico, VA
Posts: 401
Default

I don't think embrace is the right word. I'm really hoping that they won't be consumed by technology like many of us are. Technology should be a tool that helps our lives, not be the factor that dominates us.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-03-2011, 08:12 AM
Woodsprite's Avatar
Olo'eyktan
Woodsprite is very busy.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 3,172
Default

I know. Everyone should treat it that way, and that's how it is at first.

...Then it gets the better of people. It took us a short time; it might take the Na'vi longer. Maybe even much, much longer. But it'll still happen eventually... if they go for the idea.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-03-2011, 09:08 AM
Tsyal Makto's Avatar
Tsulfätu
Tsyal Makto glad to be home!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Body - Chicago, Spirit - Pandora
Posts: 1,873
Default

Will the Na'vi develop technologically? Hmmm.

That depends? Is Eywa enough of a guardian? The only reason the battle was so close was because of her late intervention. From now on I bet she'll be much more alert, and more apt to deal with any intruders in a much more timely fashion.

Even if she isn't enough protection, will the Na'vi even need to develop anything themselves? Remember, the good humans control Hell's Gate and all tech on Pandora. They should be ample bodyguards if any extra force is needed to protect the planet.

Though even if the Na'vi do develop anything in the future, one thing is certain, it will be done in a way harmonious to nature. Harmony will be paramount in any Na'vi ventures in the future. I also never see them developing civilization as we know it. Any technology they develop (if any, and a rather hefty "if" at that), it will be within their traditional tribal lifestyles. (kinda like my techno-tribalism idea, which I personally consider to be the ideal society for humanity, though whether that will ever happen is another story).
__________________


The Dreamer's Manifesto

Mike Malloy, a voice of reason in a world gone mad.

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden

Last edited by Tsyal Makto; 02-03-2011 at 09:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-03-2011, 09:33 AM
Woodsprite's Avatar
Olo'eyktan
Woodsprite is very busy.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 3,172
Default

That makes me wonder about what will happen if the RDA returns. The marines on Pandora were there for the sole purpose of protecting the miners. They weren't there to wage war on anyone. Considering how they were made to return to earth, if the RDA returns, they're going to bring more than just an security force. If a simple security team of marines was able to defeat an army of 2000 Na'vi warriors before being overwhelmed by Eywa, imagine what a real army of marines could do. Eywa wouldn't stand a chance.

The Na'vi would have to advance themselves to survive the second wave, at the cost of future conflicts with themselves, becoming more like human civilizations, or suffer the wrath of the RDA's full capabilities if they don't advance themselves. Either way, it's a lose-lose situation for Pandora.

That's what I fear.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 02-03-2011 at 09:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:19 AM
Empty Glass's Avatar
Karyu
Empty Glass has no status.
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,435
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
The Na'vi would have to advance themselves to survive the second wave, at the cost of future conflicts with themselves, becoming more like human civilizations, or suffer the wrath of the RDA's full capabilities if they don't advance themselves. Either way, it's a lose-lose situation for Pandora.

That's what I fear.
Me too, and that's what I hope doesn't happen. Ideally, they wouldn't develop rifts between clans.

I was thinking, maybe there's a chance that the Na'vi could do what seems unlikely for humanity as a whole: give up technology completely and go back to the way they were - the only way we've seen them. I'd imagine that such a point would occur when the RDA poses no more threat to Pandora and hence there's no more need to use technology for self-defense, but the problem is this: how would they know when that point would come?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:42 AM
Woodsprite's Avatar
Olo'eyktan
Woodsprite is very busy.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 3,172
Default

I don't know. Jake somehow "knew" that he was no longer needed to the Na'vi as "Toruk Makto", so he reverted back to who he was before: just a famous avatar. Perhaps the Na'vi will do the same.

Man, now you've given me hope!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Visit our partner sites:

      pandoraworld.ru



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:32 PM.

Based on the Planet Earth theme by Themes by Design


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
All images and clips of Avatar are the exclusive property of 20th Century Fox.