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  #16  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:31 AM
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Birth.
I do not think whether one is male or female is determined at birth. Going this route, I think sex is determined when the sperm and the egg join.
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  #17  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:32 AM
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That's what I meant. Conception. You're right.
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  #18  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:35 AM
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That's what I meant. Conception. You're right.
Happens to the best of us . The next question that come to my mind is whether or not gender is determined by what determines sex.
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  #19  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:38 AM
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If examples abound of people who have had double sex changes, that proves my point about how gender is indeed indicated by how you were born. There's an emotional connection to our sex that dictates our gender identity, and trans-gendered people are only feeding the idea that they want to be the opposite gender, while ignoring their true identity. "Gender Identity Disorder". GID. Deep down, psychologically, we all know who and what we really are.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 03-04-2011 at 06:40 AM.
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  #20  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:39 AM
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If examples abound of people who have had double sex changes, that proves my point about how gender is indeed indicated by how you were born. Deep down, psychologically, we all know who we really are.
But what about people that have just one sex change? Wouldn't that prove the opposite point if we make such instances our only criteria?
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  #21  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:44 AM
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According to that one article:

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There are many examples of people who were suffering from GID and in the heat of the moment opted for a sex change operation, and suffered for the rest of their life.
Those who continue to live the way they do with no remorse over their surgical transformations are simply living the fantasy they were taught from a young age to embrace, and maintaining that fantasy with more encouragement from their own side. Had they never been encouraged by anyone to embrace such behavior, they would've never ended up the way they did.

Just because single sex-change individuals exist doesn't change how there are double sex-change individuals. If double-changers exist at all, the point is proven. There's no contest.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 03-04-2011 at 06:46 AM.
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  #22  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
According to that one article:



Those who continue to live the way they do with no remorse over their surgical transformations are simply living the fantasy they were taught from a young age to embrace, and maintaining that fantasy with more encouragement from their own side. Had they never been encouraged by anyone to embrace such behavior, they would've never ended up the way they did.
The article doesn't cite any sources for its assertion. Can you also support your assertions?
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  #23  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:46 AM
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Should I list more articles?
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  #24  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:48 AM
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Should I list more articles?
That depends on what type of articles they are. I'm interested in ones that cite studies and the such.
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  #25  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:53 AM
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Perhaps some terminology will clear up some of the semantic confusion:

Gender Identity Disorder - Identifying with the opposite gender. This is generally a psychological condition unrelated to the basic chemistry of the brain or different organs. This can be summed up as personal dissatisfaction with the gender they were born into or a desire to be like the other gender.

Homosexuality - This is where the overlying brain structure of a person is the opposite of their other organs. A female and male human brain are structured differently. This condition is where thoughts and impulses automatically occur instinctively (they cannot stop it by just not thinking about it as with anyone else). The brain is subconsciously activated by certain triggers.
It should be noted that the term is used to describe both the "action" and the condition so arguments over it usually become murky.



Personally I think that once medical technology advances to the point where the exact physiological causes are fully known and the hormonal imbalances can be corrected during a child's development in the womb, this whole issue will be behind us. As of now, I favor sex change as best course of action as same sex relationships have much higher incidences of disease. It can be quite dangerous. That said it is not something to be forced but individuals in those circumstance should be encouraged to seek psychological and medical help.

Last edited by Banefull; 03-04-2011 at 07:36 AM.
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  #26  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:58 AM
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I don't know about any studies regarding this issue (and frankly, I don't think anyone's ever taken the time to do a study like this).

Banefull, how do you explain ex-gays and double sex change people? If the problem lay in their brain, these people wouldn't exist.
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  #27  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I don't know about any studies regarding this issue (and frankly, I don't think anyone's ever taken the time to do a study like this).
If there haven't been any studies done, hopefully someone does one. But this is just my curiosity talking...
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  #28  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:07 AM
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Well hopefully they'll all read this thread and do one, by golly!
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  #29  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:10 AM
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My general view is that both homosexuality and GID exist. The cases you describe could either be GID or a change in hormonal balance. Both probrably happen I won't say that one fully is to blame. (but I would like to see the results a study to determine the actual % of which is which).

My stance on this issue is that the condition does exist in some (not all) people as an actual mismatch between brain chemistry and other organs; however, I do not think that these sexual tendencies should be practiced openly nor do I support same sex marriage. At the same time though I think more understanding should be raised that certain people do have this problem and have to deal with it on a daily basis. It can be hard on them and psychiatric help needs to be available to them to help them cope.

Last edited by Banefull; 03-04-2011 at 08:39 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:16 AM
Olo'eyktan
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So, you're saying that those who turn ex-gay and those who change back to their original gender are those who don't have the brain dysfunction as bad off as those who maintain their orientation?

Interesting thought.
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