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Old 03-04-2011, 02:08 AM
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Default Transsexuality

"Having trouble" with gender identity is like a psychological... mistake, imo. There's something wrong. It isn't a "genetic goof", it's a mental disassociation with one's self. Men are men, and women are women. If they want to be each other, fine. They may be happy with themselves, and that's fine, too. Retarded people are also happy with themselves. That doesn't mean there isn't something mentally wrong with it. It's called GID for a reason.

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Old 03-04-2011, 02:21 AM
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Yet not too far in the future the term GID will be looked back upon with shame.
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:49 AM
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They may be happy with themselves, and that's fine, too. Retarded people are also happy with themselves.
...seriously, Woodsprite? SERIOUSLY?
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:31 AM
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Keep baiting woodsprite. I'm not biting.
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:38 AM
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Not baiting. Just stating what I think. But if I truly was trying to bait anyone, you just bit by posting.
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:38 AM
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*sits back with bucket of popcorn*

This should be fun to watch...

Place your bets, folks!

Woodsprite vs. Ashen/Isard.

The fight of the century. LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!

Now, as for the main topic. Eh, different strokes for different folks, I guess. I'm happy with the goods I got, but if someone else isn't, it's their choice on how to handle their own bodies.
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Old 03-04-2011, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
"Having trouble" with gender identity is like a psychological... mistake, imo. There's something wrong. It isn't a "genetic goof", it's a mental disassociation with one's self. Men are men, and women are women. If they want to be each other, fine. They may be happy with themselves, and that's fine, too. Retarded people are also happy with themselves. That doesn't mean there isn't something mentally wrong with it. It's called GID for a reason.
Woodsprite, one of my dear friends is trans. He was born female and recently (last two years) became male. His decision was not a result of a "psychological mistake" or "mental disassociation," and there is nothing "mentally wrong" with him.

Trans people are a small percentage of the population, so I can see why it would seem odd or unnatural or even creepy to you. And there was a time when I might have thought the same. But that was years ago, and I've learned a lot since then. Believe me... if you met my friend and knew him personally the way I do, his male identity would seem absolutely natural. I actually find it really jarring now to try to think of him of a girl, even though the change happened relatively recently. He's male through-and-through, and he is SO MUCH happier and healthier, now that he's officially acknowledged that and aligned his life with it... I can't even BEGIN to describe it to you.

Yes, being trans often involves a lot of cognitive dissonance, but that dissonance is imposed from the outside... society treats you like you are one gender, and subsequently you try to live your life with that gender. But meanwhile you're a different gender inside. I can tell you that my friend went through absolute emotional hell trying to reconcile his true identity with the identity that he was assumed to have. Having witnessed that (and it was tough to witness), it seems really unfair to blame the dissonance on something inside him, as opposed to something wrong with how he was expected to be. He is who he is, and who he is happens to be male. Do you really have the right to tell someone that who they are is wrong, when it doesn't even hurt anyone else?

Like I said, it would be hypocritical of me to accuse you of baiting or trolling or being a terrible person. I expect you haven't had the same opportunity to really get to know someone who is trans. I trust that you're sincere in your opinion, and I might have agreed with you a long time ago. But to put it plainly, it just ain't so.
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Old 03-04-2011, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto View Post
Now, as for the main topic. Eh, different strokes for different folks, I guess. I'm happy with the goods I got, but if someone else isn't, it's their choice on how to handle their own bodies.
I completely agree. It's their choice.

@Sothis: I don't mean "mentally wrong" as in "she's crazy". I mean people like that have a problem associating with themselves in terms of gender. This isn't normal behavior. To give a similar analogy, it's like someone acting completely sane, carrying out regular day-to-day activities, living on his own, paying taxes, having a job, a girlfriend, and in complete sync with society. The only problem is, he thinks he's really Benjamin Franklin living in the future. That's not normal. There's something mentally wrong with him. It's a diminutive disorder (like being trans-gender), but a disorder nonetheless.

As I said, there's a reason why the concensus of psychologists put a label on this disorder.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 03-04-2011 at 04:51 AM. Reason: changed some incorrect grammar usage.
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Old 03-04-2011, 04:32 AM
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I agree that it's their choice, would you hate on someone (not saying anyone here's hating, but I couldn't think of a better term) if they didn't like being human and changed themselves into a na'vi?
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Old 03-04-2011, 04:42 AM
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That's just what I mean. There's no reason to hate the person doing this. It's just a mental disorder that the person feels he/she must act upon.

Although, the analogy is a bit flawed, considering how once you become Na'vi, you're actually, physically a different being that possesses every single quality a Na'vi possesses, including the ability to make tsaheylu and reproduce. Trans-gendered people are not, and never will be able to make a complete transition from male to female, or female to male.
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I completely agree. It's their choice.

@Sothis: I don't mean "mentally wrong" as in "she's crazy". I mean people like that have a problem associating with themselves in terms of gender. This isn't normal behavior. To give a similar analogy, it's like someone acting completely sane, carrying out regular day-to-day activities, living on his own, paying taxes, having a job, a girlfriend, and in complete sync with society. The only problem is, he thinks he's really Benjamin Franklin living in the future. That's not normal. There's something mentally wrong with him. It's a diminutive disorder (like being trans-gender), but a disorder nonetheless.

As I said, there's a reason why the concensus of psychologists put a label on this disorder.
The problem with your analogy is that the example person actually ISN'T Benjamin Franklin living in the future, but my friend actually IS male.

I think you are confusing "sex" and "gender," which is a common issue. A useful quote that I've heard is "Sex is what's between your legs. Gender is what's between your ears. Orientation is what's between your sheets."
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How do you make up after you've done the unforgivable? Jake and Neytiri have a conversation in the wake of Hometree's destruction, during their first real moment alone following his return as Toruk Makto.

The Last Train Home
Fourteen years after the war, a lone spaceship appears in the sky. The former members of the Avatar program watch its approach – expecting the worst, fearing for their adopted home. Then the ship lands. And suddenly, nothing makes sense anymore.

Five seconds too late
This is a different kind of Jake/Neytiri romance, the story that would've unfolded had she been delayed for just five seconds while trying to reach him following the fight with Quaritch.
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
As I said, there's a reason why the concensus of psychologists put a label on this disorder.
Actually, this is not true. The good psychologists don't consider being transgender a disorder at all, in the sense that there is something "wrong" with how they perceive themselves.
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How do you make up after you've done the unforgivable? Jake and Neytiri have a conversation in the wake of Hometree's destruction, during their first real moment alone following his return as Toruk Makto.

The Last Train Home
Fourteen years after the war, a lone spaceship appears in the sky. The former members of the Avatar program watch its approach – expecting the worst, fearing for their adopted home. Then the ship lands. And suddenly, nothing makes sense anymore.

Five seconds too late
This is a different kind of Jake/Neytiri romance, the story that would've unfolded had she been delayed for just five seconds while trying to reach him following the fight with Quaritch.

Last edited by Sothis; 03-04-2011 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:18 AM
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Your friend isn't male. I assure you. It's a mental disorder. It's like a mantra; you can say it over and over that she's a man, she's a man... but she isn't. It's a trait that has been brought about from years of encouragement by others to pursue an identity that she can never, and will never be. She was born a female and she'll die a female. You can put a label that says "peas" on all the cans of green beans there are in the world. That doesn't make them peas. Just because she has a life-long history surrounding this issue doesn't make her disorder any less of a disorder than it actually is.

...Who are "the good psychologists"?

Last edited by Woodsprite; 03-04-2011 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:19 AM
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Your friend isn't male. I assure you. It's a mental disorder. It's like a mantra; you can say it over and over that she's a man, she's a man... but she isn't.
But what makes one male or one female?
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:24 AM
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But what makes one male or one female?
Birth.


Sothis, I think you should read this. That's not the only example I have, by the way.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 03-04-2011 at 05:26 AM.
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