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Old 04-11-2011, 08:15 AM
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Default That's it. I'm moving when I get my degree.

Republicans. **** you. I quit, enjoy your debt and delusions.

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This is the last straw. I now declare America deceased.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Isard View Post
Republicans. **** you. I quit, enjoy your debt and delusions.

ThinkProgress


This is the last straw. I now declare America deceased.
...oh, they didn't. Tell me they didn't. Yes, let's just punish raped women EVEN MORE, and make their recovery EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. (And what happens when it's CHILDREN who are raped and now pregnant? Think of the damn children, indeed) *rages*

Gah, I'm so sorry.
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:15 AM
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That's so horrible.. It reminds me of what if happening at the moment with women in the Australian Defence Force...
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:26 AM
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Republicans. **** you. I quit, enjoy your debt and delusions.

ThinkProgress


This is the last straw. I now declare America deceased.
Welcome to the club.

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With them, the only crap you have to put up with with is literal.
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:33 AM
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I'm sorry... last I checked, killing babies for the sake of rapists was considered an idiotic thing to do. How exactly is aborting an unwanted child somehow "justified" because it was conceived through rape? It's a child, regardless. Does the child get to choose how or why it was conceived? It's like no one here is thinking of the kid. Why does abortion always have to be publicized as "all about the mom's choice?" It's not.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I'm sorry... last I checked, killing babies for the sake of rapists was considered an idiotic thing to do. How exactly is aborting an unwanted child somehow "justified" because it was conceived through rape? It's a child, regardless. Does the child get to choose how or why it was conceived? It's like no one here is thinking of the kid. Why does abortion always have to be publicized as "all about the mom's choice?" It's not.
Ah, so you are one of the "think of the foetus, screw the mother" types. Good to know. -_-
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:08 AM
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So killing another to make one "feel better" is somehow... fine? Two wrongs make a right; end justifies the means. Very logical...
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
So killing another to make one "feel better" is somehow... fine? Two wrongs make a right; end justifies the means. Very logical...
Funny. Last I checked, a foetus wasn't medically concerned a person. It should be up to the MOTHER to decide. If she wants to consider the collection of cells within a person, more the power to her. If she doesn't, she shouldn't be forced to go through pregnancy and birth.

And thank you for being so utterly inconsiderate towards women and girls who suffer the trauma of rape. But, hey, at least I know you don't support my right to my own body!

(But please, please tell me that you at least support universal health-care so the mother doesn't have to bear the financial burden of a child you won't let her abort when still not yet a person. And please tell me you are also in favour of paid maternity leave, and improved adoption and child services, so if she chooses to give the child up because she is unable - emotionally or otherwise - to care of for it, it's not going to be bounced from foster home to foster home.

Please tell me this, because then I at least understand somewhere where you are coming from, beyond holding up a collection of cells as being more important than a living, breathing girl or woman.

Of course, if you are in favour of, say, eleven-year-old children being forced to give birth - which has happened - I've got nothing more to say to you on this topic)
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  #9  
Old 04-11-2011, 11:50 AM
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I detect... ill.

(If this goes any further, it should be moved to the debate section.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashen Key View Post
Funny. Last I checked, a foetus wasn't medically concerned a person. It should be up to the MOTHER to decide. If she wants to consider the collection of cells within a person, more the power to her. If she doesn't, she shouldn't be forced to go through pregnancy and birth.

And thank you for being so utterly inconsiderate towards women and girls who suffer the trauma of rape. But, hey, at least I know you don't support my right to my own body!
I'd like to see some scientific evidence for this. I've seen plenty for the argument of those who believe it's a child that lives, starting from conception. I've personally known quite a few young (and older) women who would disagree with you, concerning how a fetus isn't a living child, especially those whom I have sat with in sympathy and comfort, knowing full-well what abortions can be like, and how they can psychologically hurt the mother more than the rapist ever could have.

Yes Ashen Key, I know what it feels like to personally sit up all night with those who've gone through circumstances where abortions, in almost every single case, were coerced by either the parents, peers, or the abortionist when in doubt in the final hour. I've experienced the first-hand stories of those who were raped (yes, raped), and later deeply regretted what they did to themselves and their babies after going through an abortion.

Yes Ashen, I've gone through what no person should go through concerning counseling of others in such pitiful situations, where they wish they could go back in time and reverse their irreversible decision. You have no idea what it's like to go through such pain, Ashen. No idea. Sometimes I wish I could erase my memory for all the terrible things I've heard such things in this subject. Do you know what it's like to actually be able to feel the small baby scrambling and writhing inside you while it's slowly cut up into pieces at only weeks old? or experiencing the trauma afterward, of watching the pieces being sucked out of you? or how many times I've heard respectable doctors say how it is indeed dangerous at times in the abortion clinic? I can't even begin to imagine what it must feel like to be in any of these women's places.

You insult my intelligence by assuming I'm some sort of "crazy, conservative, 'screw-the-mother'" type who has no care for anything but his own personal motivation to uphold some "faulty" principle that has no meaning except to those who have no clue about the real world. You may not have said it, but I can sense it.

You read an article about a mother who wants to abort a baby because she was raped, and you automatically think it's wrong to prevent such a thing from happening because you think the mother, who's in absolutely no physical danger whatsoever, somehow has a right to dispose of the unwanted even when it's been shown by many sources I've read to be an obvious child that lives inside the mother? I don't know how many secular, nonsensical articles you've read about some "right to choice" that the mother has to declare, "I'm my own woman," but you're mistaken to think that this is a subject that has been hammered down as "fully addressed." It's ironic to note how every mother who claims "right to choice" was never chosen to be arborted, and considering how the child has no choice at all. That's blind, sickening, sexist-feminist hogwash if I ever heard any.

Don't you ever, ever presume to know my intentions about such a sensitive subject again when you haven't the first clue about what you're talking about. Do you hear me?

I have nothing more to add.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:54 AM
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I apologize for insulting you, quite sincerely.

But I will not, and never will, apologize for my position on woman's rights and a woman's right to chose to take what control she can over her own body and her own life. So, yes, I do believe on this we have nothing further to say to each other.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:04 PM
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they could use the foetus' for their stem cells

*is it spelt fetus or foetus? anyway, its a waste of a dying fetus. why not use one life to possibly save many
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Last edited by tm20; 04-11-2011 at 12:13 PM.
  #12  
Old 04-11-2011, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I'm sorry... last I checked, killing babies for the sake of rapists was considered an idiotic thing to do. How exactly is aborting an unwanted child somehow "justified" because it was conceived through rape? It's a child, regardless. Does the child get to choose how or why it was conceived? It's like no one here is thinking of the kid. Why does abortion always have to be publicized as "all about the mom's choice?" It's not.
You volunteering to carry it to term?


If yes, be my guest good sir, if not, shut the **** up because odds are, you will never suffer rape. Not only is this an assault on women's rights, it a blatant attack on the separation of church and state.
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  #13  
Old 04-11-2011, 05:33 PM
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Join the club, Isard.

Next stop, the United States of Canada. I would be moving to Italy if 'ol Silvio wasn't such an asshat.
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  #14  
Old 04-11-2011, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isard View Post
it a blatant attack on the separation of church and state.
Regardless of what his reasons are, there are other reasons for thinking abortions are immoral than just religion. For example, my philosophy professor from last semester was not religious but held the belief that abortion was wrong on other moral grounds.

I'm not really trying to say anything specific here, because I know religion is obviously the most cited reason, but I just wanted to point that out.

And I guess this just comes down to if you think abortion is murder. If yes, then since I don't like killing anyone, I'd rather not. If no then personal rights all the way. And again, that's probably more of a philosophical question than anything else. Personally I don't think it's murder so I don't think abortions should be illegal, but hey I know smart, sane people who disagree for legitimate reasons. I guess I'm trying to say that the "other side" isn't necessarily as stupid as you'd like to think they are, even if certain people in the groups are.
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  #15  
Old 04-11-2011, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I'm sorry... last I checked, killing babies for the sake of rapists was considered an idiotic thing to do. How exactly is aborting an unwanted child somehow "justified" because it was conceived through rape? It's a child, regardless. Does the child get to choose how or why it was conceived? It's like no one here is thinking of the kid. Why does abortion always have to be publicized as "all about the mom's choice?" It's not.
Highlighted is the statement that, probably, should prevail. In first place, as mentioned, the child was conceived by rape. It means that the "child" was conceived against the desire of the mother. It means someone was forced, in what probably is one of the most horrendous experiences that a woman could live: to receive genetic material from a criminal through violence and, to add insult to injury, as a result of such action, the victim must carry along with a pregnancy that should have never happened. It's rape, it's a crime. As for how aware a fetus is, there's plenty of debate about it, but consider that a considerable portion of people in irreversible vegetative status exhibits behavior that could be considered like a concious act.
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