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Old 06-07-2011, 08:53 PM
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Default Utopia vs paradise

For this thread, I would like to discuse what are the characteristics of a utopia and paradise.

Most people would say that they are the same thing, but I would disagree. A utopia is like 1950s america where everyone is seemingly happy. But holding that utopia in order was keeping people from thinking on their own.

Paradise, for example Pandora, has bueaty but it also has chous and many lives can die in the process. But The Na'vi can live in paradise by finding ways to avoid being killed but at the same time not distroing what is around them.

What are your thoughts?
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Last edited by Rainbowhawk1993; 06-08-2011 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowhawk1993 View Post

A utopia is like 1950s america where everyone is seemingly happy. But holding that utopia in order was keeping people from thinking on their own.?
Source, please??
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:18 PM
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well, to say it in the words of a casual intoxicated street boy:

Utopia would be for me a world consisting of Cloudy Bay and Strawberrys while Paradise is a Strawberry field in Reality and my wine online ordering site

In Utopia the Impossible is Possible - and Paradise is just the place/state of our maximum enjoyment - whatever it is, is everyones own choice
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowhawk1993 View Post
Most people would say that they are the same thing, but I would disagree. A utopia is like 1950s america where everyone is seemingly happy. But holding that utopia in order was keeping people from thinking on their own.
If you were a white, heterosexual male.

Just sayin'.

Utopia IMO is always built on the backs of someone or something, that is kept out of sight and out of mind. In 1950s America, it was the repression of minorities and the fear of nuclear war. I'm sure 1940s Germany was pretty utopian to Aryan gentiles. In other ficitional utopias, like, say, Libria in Equilibrium, it was the repression of emotion (same as THX 1138). In Gattaca, the repression of those with bad genes.

Paradise IMO is a society that sees the flaws and dangers of the world, and manages to work around them in the best way possible. Pandora is really a good example. Another possibility is that paradise is a state of mind, rather than a place, and many here probably now a good example of this: PAE.
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:47 PM
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Both depend on your definition. I always thought understood the former as the best that is possible in a situation and the latter as an ideal one.
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:54 PM
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I was always taught that a Utopian society was a paradise. It depends on what you think it means. To me the 1950's wouldn't have been a Utopia.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_jones View Post
Source, please??
I don't understand what your saying. I took american history and had many subjects in English class about this thing. In the 1950's, It was a time of peace and economic development. It also was the time were television was created and commercials became abbundent and the fast-food industry's seeds took root. And the televisions were all saying the same thing "You should keep up with the Joneses." That is why I believe it was the utiopia in american history.

Quote:
If you were a white, heterosexual male.

Just sayin'.
And a utopia for one race usually ment a distopia for another. When ever I think of a utopia off the top of my head, I think of the 1950's america, blade runner and other things. (A distopia shrouded in an utiopan appeal.)

One more thing, if you think that 1950's america wasn't a utopia or a utopia is the same as paradice, I encourage you to watch Pleasentville and/or Footloose.
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:29 AM
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I can't really answer this question. Ideally, I'd like an equal utopia, but that doesn't seem awfully plausible.
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:12 PM
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Paradise is in the past and Utopias are wishes for the future?

I think Utopia has definitely the connotation of something unreal - either unrealistic or "too good to be true". In SciFi, Utopias usually end up having some major flipside. I also think Utopias are more ambitious - things have to be better there than one can possibly reach, that makes them impossible. Paradise however is a state that is more worldly.

This is also reflected by etymology by the way. Utopia seems to come from "Nowhere" - something that does not exist, while Paradise comes from a "garden" or "park" (that is maybe even guarded against outside influences).

Also if I think of Utopia, I think of something humans create, while when thinking of Paradise, I'm more inclined to think of something that exists by itself (or if you will by the will of the universe, god, the creator,... ). So a room in which you get food at the punch of a button would be something from some kind of Utopia, while a beautiful sunset on a beach may invoke a feeling of being in paradise.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis View Post
Also if I think of Utopia, I think of something humans create, while when thinking of Paradise, I'm more inclined to think of something that exists by itself (or if you will by the will of the universe, god, the creator,... ). So a room in which you get food at the punch of a button would be something from some kind of Utopia, while a beautiful sunset on a beach may invoke a feeling of being in paradise.
I think that's a good way of putting it. Although, I never felt there was a need to distinguish the two in the first place. Both generally refer to something of a "perfect place".

It's probably impossible for such a place to exist. Even societies that have a lot in common will differ in what is "ideal". And even more variation occurs between individuals. However, this doesn't mean we shouldn't reach for a better world for everyone. Generally, everyone can agree world peace, global unity, and clean air are good things. We may disagree on what "perfect" is, but I think for the most part we can agree on what is "good".
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Old 06-10-2011, 11:30 PM
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I think both a paradise and a utopia may be put as ideals. Perhaps that's how the government thinks of it.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:15 AM
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Utopia: Culturally sustained paradise.

Paradise: Well..... perfection.

Edit: It should be noted that as others have pointed out, an attempt to create a utopia usually creates a distopia which is subsequently responsible for the dissolution of the utopia.
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Last edited by Spock; 06-13-2011 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:36 PM
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Is paradise a place or a state of mind?
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:01 PM
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That is also a good point, caveman. To "be in paradise" may actually more refer to an experience, while "creating an utopia" is more focussed on physical things. Kinda what I meant with Utopia being something people create while paradise being something that just is - it "just is" because it is not manufactured - because it is in the mind and an emotional state. Hmmm
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:59 PM
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I've always thought of Paradise as a place of some kind.

If paradise is only a mental state, then can anyone with enough THC be in paradise?
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