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  #31  
Old 05-07-2012, 02:43 PM
Taronyu
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Originally Posted by Aquaplant View Post
I guess I don't have to wonder anymore why people don't take you seriously.
Better speak for yourself since you can hardly know how many that might or might not take me seriously.

With the we, that you underlined, I meant our society in general, which we all take some part in.
  #32  
Old 05-07-2012, 05:08 PM
Tsamsiyu
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The only thing that advocates this beauty standard that you speak of are part of the cosmetics industry that make loads of money because women spend huge amounts of money on vanity products and all that jazz.

Trying to blame individuals is just plain wrong.
  #33  
Old 05-08-2012, 01:37 AM
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There's nothing wrong with that either. People want to look good, and shouldn't be banned from doing so.
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  #34  
Old 05-08-2012, 02:52 AM
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In my personal experience: No.
Beauty is a complicated matter, for some it is everything, for others it's just a bonus of life. For others, everything is beautiful (its own way...). Do I like Neytiri? Yes. Does that make my wife "ugly"? No, if anything, it makes me see that my wife is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen and I am grateful that she loves me as I love her.
So, that's it, IMHO.
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  #35  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Aquaplant View Post
The only thing that advocates this beauty standard that you speak of are part of the cosmetics industry that make loads of money because women spend huge amounts of money on vanity products and all that jazz.

Trying to blame individuals is just plain wrong.
It is not just the individuals, it is the system itself, and the "culture" it leads to, that leads us to search for superficial beauty and superficial pleasure.

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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
There's nothing wrong with that either. People want to look good, and shouldn't be banned from doing so.
People have been trying to look good since the stone age, so it is probably a part of being human, but to commecialize beauty (especially the kind of superficial beauty that is obtained by plastic surgery and similar) and put harder and harder pressure on those who do not conforme to the more and more unrealistic standards we are setting up, seems to lead us in the wrong direction.
  #36  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpaintednavi View Post
It is not just the individuals, it is the system itself, and the "culture" it leads to, that leads us to search for superficial beauty and superficial pleasure.
Why is this thread even active still?
People like attractive people. No one's looking for a 9 foot tall blue chick. And no one thinks bone thin models are attractive.
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  #37  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpaintednavi View Post
People have been trying to look good since the stone age, so it is probably a part of being human, but to commecialize beauty (especially the kind of superficial beauty that is obtained by plastic surgery and similar) and put harder and harder pressure on those who do not conforme to the more and more unrealistic standards we are setting up, seems to lead us in the wrong direction.
Explain how beauty is being commercialized.
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  #38  
Old 05-08-2012, 12:31 PM
Taronyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_jones View Post
Explain how beauty is being commercialized.


When our perceptions of beauty are used (or manipulated with, or even created) to sell different products, both to make us conform to that beauty (as in everything from makeup to plastic surgery or diet pills) or to sell other kind of products, then one can say beauty, or our concept of it, is commercialized.



A take on the problem with unrealistic and unhealthy stereotypes of female beauty.

Quote:
...research indicates that exposure to images of thin, young, air-brushed female bodies is linked to depression, loss of self-esteem and the development of unhealthy eating habits in women and girls.
Beauty and Body Image in the Media
  #39  
Old 05-08-2012, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpaintednavi View Post
People have been trying to look good since the stone age, so it is probably a part of being human, but to commecialize beauty (especially the kind of superficial beauty that is obtained by plastic surgery and similar) and put harder and harder pressure on those who do not conforme to the more and more unrealistic standards we are setting up, seems to lead us in the wrong direction.
Again, why the emphasis on plastic surgery? Sounds like you have some kind of personal vendetta here.

People who do not 'conforme' (sic) are making their own choice. If someone makes a choice that impacts themselves negatively, that's their own fault. You're acting as if people have actual problems being accepted if they don't fit some nebulous and nonexistent idea of what you hate. That's not true - take a look around and stop trying to make yourself feel hard done by.

You can't force everyone into some conformity with the lowest common denominator so that their feelings won't be hurt at the expense of everyone else. You really should read Harrison Bergeron.

EVERYTHING is linked to depression, and I find your use of that as a point in an argument belittling to those who actually suffer from it.
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  #40  
Old 05-08-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
If someone makes a choice that impacts themselves negatively, that's their own fault.
That sounds... almost naively simplistic. Everyone makes decisions for a reason, and the most effective way to change peoples' decisions is to change their incentives. Ideally, you want to do that in a way that means that people are dissuaded from choices which harm them or others.

However, I think redpaintednavi is more concerned with the effect CGI and manipulated images have on peoples' self-esteem. There's a disconnect between the images the media are presenting of what is "hot" and "beautiful" and what is actually healthy, and people aim for the former without being aware of that disconnect. This results in them aiming for an ideal that isn't actually possible, and their self-esteen suffers because they fail to reach it.
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  #41  
Old 05-08-2012, 10:13 PM
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So people in films should be ugly to make people feel better about themselves?

People aren't quite as stupid as you two seem to think.
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  #42  
Old 05-08-2012, 10:51 PM
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I wasn't aware the choice was between "impossibly beautiful" and "ugly." Have I missed something that rules out "plausibly nice?"
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  #43  
Old 05-08-2012, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
People aren't quite as stupid as you two seem to think.
Sure they are.

My livelihood depends on it.

Sex is a very common sales tactic. Commercials that run across my TV station use it all the time. The false promise of the unattainable works wonders for manipulating people. We bank on hope ("HOPE" made for a great presidential campaign for the same reason) for things we want.

And reality plays no part in any of it.

Our world is shaped by our minds; and we are amazingly simple to manipulate.


And yes, I think it is a considerable problem. Which is why I also teach and work as a journalist; in attempts to remind people to think for themselves about reality.

- Mikko
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