Ethical Dilemma: Proceure to make a Gay person Straight - Page 3 - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
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  #31  
Old 12-16-2012, 10:53 PM
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They're wrong. It's as simple as that.
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  #32  
Old 12-17-2012, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikranosphere View Post
I am straight. It's not my case. Someone explained it this way on TV long time ago.
Oh, someone on TV said that? I don't know you or anything, and I don't think you actually are, but you really sound like a troll.
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  #33  
Old 12-17-2012, 06:07 PM
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Well, I'm not trolling or whatever you're thinking, just exposed an idea since I wasn't involved in the subject from the beginning. Yeah, someone said it on TV, to be more exact, someone who was gay and made it to go straight within few years. He said that "the case for someone to be born with it is very rare, and those who do, might cope with it, or may not, but most of those who weren't born with it, they want to become one or not"... due to some frustrations, issues or other factors I guess.

Ok, maybe it's none of my business and not my subject, so I'll stick around others.
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  #34  
Old 12-17-2012, 07:55 PM
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Sexuality is not like flipping a switch. It is one of the most complex issues of Human (possibly extending to another primates and animals) behavior and psychology (and physiology). It can drive people, literary, insane just trying to explain it or accepting it or experiencing it. It is a traumatizing experience and, depending on the circumstances, it can be one of the most beautiful experiences or the worst nightmare for anyone. Until Science discovers the irrefutable causes for a certain kind of sexual orientation, there can't be a "right/wrong" answer to it.
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  #35  
Old 12-19-2012, 11:32 PM
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In terms of it being against the laws of nature, I just wanna say quickly, that that is not necessarily so. If the goal is to pass on your genes, then an advantage might be an organism that, when resources are scarce (perhaps babies in the womb of a mammal that is malnourished), some of those babies have a 'gay' gene turned on due to the environmental stimuli of malnourishment. Then, when those babies are born, they all have similar genes, and maybe the 'gay' ones don't reproduce and steal mates, but help find resources, or even act as a 'wingman' so to speak for their brothers and sisters. Then, when the straight offspring of that group of babies has its own offspring, since the original babies all share genes, then statistically, the 'gay' organism helped pass on some of his genes, and statistically it may be more advantageous and pass on more genes if he is gay.

Thus, the 'gay' gene is still passed on, but may or may not be activated depending on environmental stimuli.
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It seems like everybody is moving forward. As if there is some final goal they can achieve and get to. I don't get it though. When I look around, it seems like I'm already there, and there is nothing left to do.

"You think you're so clever and classless and free, but you're still ****ing peasants as far as I can see."

I wish I could take just one hour of what I experience out in nature, wrap it in a box, put a bow on it, and start handing out to people

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  #36  
Old 12-20-2012, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theorist View Post
In terms of it being against the laws of nature, I just wanna say quickly, that that is not necessarily so.
It is most definitely so - Nature has no morality. It does not care what you decide to do, and has no sense of 'right' or 'wrong.'
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  #37  
Old 12-20-2012, 05:11 PM
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I was meaning more in terms of natural selection "survival of the fittest" sort of things. Like that a 'gay' gene could be selected for, and isn't unnatural in the sense that it doesn't occur in organisms outside of humans, and the whole argument that you need to reproduce, because there is more to passing on genes than just having your own offspring.

I don't know about morality, that's a long discussion, but when you say 'nature' has no morality, what nature do you mean?
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"Pardon me, I wanna live in a fantasy"

"I wish I was a sacrifice but somehow still lived on"

It seems like everybody is moving forward. As if there is some final goal they can achieve and get to. I don't get it though. When I look around, it seems like I'm already there, and there is nothing left to do.

"You think you're so clever and classless and free, but you're still ****ing peasants as far as I can see."

I wish I could take just one hour of what I experience out in nature, wrap it in a box, put a bow on it, and start handing out to people

Nature has its own religion; gospel from the land

I know I was born and I know that I'll die; The in between is mine."
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  #38  
Old 12-21-2012, 04:13 AM
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Evolution is random. There's a misconception about the survival of the fittest and Evolution in general. It is the Environment what defines what will go on and will die. Different (random) characteristics appear in a group of individuals. Natural Selection then puts them to the test of survival and whoever gets to live wins. And even in that situation, inheritance is not guaranteed. Indeed, Nature is brutally immoral.
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  #39  
Old 12-21-2012, 07:35 PM
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okay, I just wasn't sure if Clarke meant like nature as in the laws of physics, and fundamental particles, or nature as in the systems comprising the biosphere.

Because yeah, nature will "**** you out dead with zero warning"
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"Pardon me, I wanna live in a fantasy"

"I wish I was a sacrifice but somehow still lived on"

It seems like everybody is moving forward. As if there is some final goal they can achieve and get to. I don't get it though. When I look around, it seems like I'm already there, and there is nothing left to do.

"You think you're so clever and classless and free, but you're still ****ing peasants as far as I can see."

I wish I could take just one hour of what I experience out in nature, wrap it in a box, put a bow on it, and start handing out to people

Nature has its own religion; gospel from the land

I know I was born and I know that I'll die; The in between is mine."
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  #40  
Old 12-24-2012, 02:14 AM
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Wow. This is a concept worthy of some thought. I believe that an individuals habits, even likes and dislikes, can be affected, but the fundamental kernel of their ability to love, perhaps not. In other words, I don't believe such a "procedure" could ever be truly successful. Legal to try? Maybe. But it would have to be at the request of the recipient, with zero duress. And even then, I think they'd be crazy to want to change themselves, and that might need more psyche help than the request to "reorient."
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