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Old 11-10-2016, 08:40 PM
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Default General Politics Thread

ITT: Discussion and opinions regarding the current election. Also, general politics thread.
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Old 11-11-2016, 02:53 AM
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I'm a little scare about what might happen, because everybody seems to be freaking out, but I'm glad Trump won. He may have said a lot of silly things, but he did it, and that's pretty cool.
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Old 11-11-2016, 03:21 AM
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it seems the proverbial court jester has taken over Camelot. four years of comedy. lolz
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Old 11-11-2016, 04:34 AM
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Here's what I can say... I voted.

My outlook? Let's wait and see.
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Old 11-11-2016, 06:34 AM
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I find myself very less-than-enthused by Trump's attitude towards climate change and the environment in general.
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Old 11-11-2016, 06:47 AM
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I was very surprised Trump won. I'm even more surprised about what I guess I'll call "the meltdown" that came as a result.
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Old 11-12-2016, 11:45 AM
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There are a few reasons I feel the Trump administration will be disastrous:

1) The head of the EPA will be a climate change denier, and Trump himself thinks that global warming is a Chinese conspiracy to keep US manufacturing uncompetitive.

2) His vice president, Mike Pence, is a Christian fundamentalist and will work against womens' reproductive rights (access to abortions and contraceptives) and attempt to set back any progress in the area of LGBT equality.

3) Trump has said that he will oppose net neutrality.

As a member of the LGBT community, having someone like Pence in such a position of power scares me greatly. I am afraid that North Carolina's HB2 will no longer be an isolated incident.
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sight Unseen View Post
There are a few reasons I feel the Trump administration will be disastrous:

1) The head of the EPA will be a climate change denier, and Trump himself thinks that global warming is a Chinese conspiracy to keep US manufacturing uncompetitive.

2) His vice president, Mike Pence, is a Christian fundamentalist and will work against womens' reproductive rights (access to abortions and contraceptives) and attempt to set back any progress in the area of LGBT equality.

3) Trump has said that he will oppose net neutrality.

As a member of the LGBT community, having someone like Pence in such a position of power scares me greatly. I am afraid that North Carolina's HB2 will no longer be an isolated incident.
Yeah this pretty sums but my feelings on the issue, along with some depressing analysis of where the left can go in much of the western world. Over here in the UK we've got Brexit and similar problems for the left.

Still we can take some hope in that Trump is already backtracking on positions.
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoblade View Post
Still we can take some hope in that Trump is already backtracking on positions.
I really hope so, the three points named are in my list of my concerns for sure.
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Old 11-12-2016, 11:09 PM
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The establishment lost on election night.

Which is why I'm very optimistic about our future.


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Old 11-13-2016, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Enigma View Post
Here's some insight from UNDOOMED about the election. Word of warning though if you're sensitive about this topic you will not like the guy and he does use harsh language. The way I found this guy is from watching atheist commentary on YouTube and this guy is an atheist, but this also proves I am willing to listen to people with opposing views as me. While I disagree with him on the subject of God I do agree with him on this. I'm putting this out there just to have different perspective from outside of ToS.





"are you sure you're a teacher?!!" lolz *i have a potty mouth and i appreciate my fellow potty-mouthers *
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Enigma View Post
Here's some insight from UNDOOMED about the election. Word of warning though if you're sensitive about this topic you will not like the guy and he does use harsh language. The way I found this guy is from watching atheist commentary on YouTube and this guy is an atheist, but this also proves I am willing to listen to people with opposing views as me. While I disagree with him on the subject of God I do agree with him on this. I'm putting this out there just to have different perspective from outside of ToS.




I know who Undoomed is but I absolutely can not tolerate his voice. It's like pouring gravel in my ears.
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Old 11-14-2016, 02:39 AM
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Thank goodness he isn't for gay conversion. That really had me worried.
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Old 11-14-2016, 04:29 AM
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this election exposed the huge divide in murica, not just because of the usual media-generated suspects like racism, class, straight/gay, etc, but the ever deepening rift between the college-educated white collar types and the usually non-college educated blue collar working class. college educated people overwhelmingly vote democratic and that is an undeniable fact, while the working class tend to vote all over the place, democratic, repubs, and independents, making them hard to pin down in the polls. it must have drove all the college-educated pollsters nuts when the election went to trump, when all their fancy polls and research said clinton would win it handily. see that, high dollar education doesn't always pay off. lol

i have no higher education myself, and have no patience for a bunch of whack-a-doodle old fuddie duddie college profs telling me what to think. i have no love for either party or candidate and i'll do my own thinking, thank you very much. i wish the damn gov't would stay out of my life, period. that doesn't mean i'm some flunktard of the republitards, on the contrary i despise those mean-spirited environment abusers and their massive oil baron empires. i can't stand the democrackheads either because all they want to do is TELL me what to think and make sure i have gov't mandated healthcare or else. the same gov't that puts people in jail for a little recreational desert, wants to send us to jail for not having mandatory healthcare. the founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.

i can't stand any of the so-called independent parties either, just a bunch of wishy washy wannabes. libertarians won't make any decisions on anything of substance or even spend money on tv ads, green party is a joke, what do you tards even stand for???. and don't get me started on the amerikkka tea-baggers, just a bunch of nasty white people who care only for white people. geez, you people suck. this country was founded on immigration and the melting-pot of Ellis Island. we are all Americans, regardless of skin color, gender, religion or lack thereof, etc.

it is highly ironic that trump has so much of his campaign based around immigration issues. lets review the trumpster, shall we?

his ex-wife is Czech

his current wife is Slovenian

his parents came here as immigrants, all his family are immigrants and descendants of immigrants.

i'm drowning in the irony.
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Old 11-14-2016, 11:20 PM
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I am quite worried about Donald Trump as the next US president, for a variety of reasons.

Firstly, there are the policies themselves which he stands for. At their worst, many of his campaign promises are anti-environmental and incredibly anti-humanitarian. The anti-environmental policies are obvious - global warming denial is of course the main concern here. I can see the point of view that global warming may not be as big of a deal as it has been made out to be (though I personally disagree with that), but even then, even if there is doubt, why not work towards the best possible outcome? Most policies to prevent global warming also promotes a greater environmental impact overall, in terms of pollution, deforestation, and other larger concerns. Trump's policies stand to, besides accelerate global warming, increase global pollution and speed up the rate of which we harvest the Earth's natural resources, which is a very worrysome thing.

Aside from environmental concerns, the deportation of illegal immigrants is another issue. While I can understand the idea behind this from a logical point of view ("immigration should always be done through proper channels), in my view this is ignoring the human aspect of it, the basic compassion towards other people. Regardless of how things should or should not work in the future, there are a huge amount of illegal immigrants who came to the US through desperation, and forceful deportation would be blindly following policy without considering that actual people's lives are being affected for the much, much worse.

Similar concerns can be raised for healthcare reforms - as a permanent US resident having moved there from Sweden, I'm a firm believer that our basic human needs should be approached from a socialist perspective, and the more capitalist elements should be reserved for non-essential fields of work and production. Health care, to the extent of its availability, can absolutely be considered a basic human right, and Obama's reforms were a step closer to making this a reality for everyone. I don't think everything in society benefits from a non-capitalistic view, but health care is in my view absolutely one of those things.

Finally there are the deeply inhumane ideas of forbidding any Muslims of entering the US - this is generalizing a shocking amount of 1 billion people based on a few extremist groups, and aside from the fact that it's literally unconstitutional, it is also showing a huge lack of respect for other human beings. This seems to be a recurring theme in Trump's policies, and brings me to the other aspect of his presidency that I feel even more worried about...



Policies are one thing, and these things can be debated and logically discussed, but a much darker side of the last events in my eyes, is the values that are being more and more common lately. One one hand, over the last years there's been an increase in more over-the-top, sometimes hypocritical liberal views - which I admit are occasionally destructive - but as a response to this, there has emerged a shocking amount of the very opposite. In the name of opposing "political correctness", people have seemingly forgotten actual respect and human decency.

The video Eternal Enigma posted is a good example of this - he's making some point which, while I don't agree with, are still worth of discussion, but he is also showing a huge lack of respect in how he's communicating. It's not really matter of 'cursing' etc, that's always been pretty benign - but a good example is where he brings up the professor who allowed his students to skip an exam due to being upset about the Trump win, and then proceeded to spend a few minutes ranting about how they were all a bunch of "****ing crybabies". Is this really necessary? Does opposing political correctness mean it's okay to actively and knowingly insult people for the sake of self-gratification or provocation? People have a right to be upset, to be concerned, to be emotionally affected by something. Yes, people can take this too far, but never should it be a reason to intentionally cause grief, harm or sadness to other human beings. The level of disrespectful views, language and reasoning that has blossomed in the wake of Trump's campaign (among other things - in many ways Trump is not the cause but rather a manifestation of this) is hugely saddening to me. A simple visit to alt-right media sites or Reddit's The_Donald subreddit shows insulting language, respectless comments and just a lack of compassion that's fairly stunning.

And I'm not criticizing the views here - it's perfectly fine to be fed up with political correctness, or liberal viewpoints, or anything else of that matter! But the hateful ways these counter-viewpoints are expressed are so unnecessary and destructive.

I don't want to generalize too much of course, and hardly everyone who's supporting Donald Trump is a hateful person, far from it. But Trump himself does still personify this mentality to its very core, where opposing viewpoints are met with provocation, insults, and a general lack of respect. I can gladly discuss Trump's policies and ideas of how to run a country, but I strongly feel a president should be a decent human being, and I strongly feel Trump is not. This in itself does not invalidate his ideas, but it does make me saddened to see him win the election. Perhaps the most important quality of a president is being able to govern well, but I really wish there would also be room for human compassion.
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