What can we do to stop the RDA:s of our real world? - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
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  #1  
Old 10-03-2010, 12:52 PM
Taronyu
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Default What can we do to stop the RDA:s of our real world?

In Avatar the big company RDA are depleting Pandora of its resources.

Here on Earth we have many smilar companies that many times with the support of more or less corrupt governments and authorities go out and plunder the resources in countries all over the world. The action of these coprporations are destroying immense environmental and human values, turning some areas into barren wasteland and enslaving or even exterminating people and annihilating whole cultures.

Just a few examples:

-In India the London based mining company Vedanta tries to destroy the holy mountains of the people Dongria Kondh. Fotunately enough, Indian government try to stop the company after pressure from an international opinion.

-Oil giant Chevron-Texaco are destroying rainforest in the Amazon Equador and turning the beautiful lands of indigenous people into a waste dump.

-Lundin Oil from Sweden went in a drilled for oil in areas of Southern Sudan where the fundamentalist muslim government had exterminated and displaced thousands of people belonging to local, indigenous non muslim peoples.

These examples can be multiplied but you get the principle of it.

The question is, what can we do about it? We are in some way taking part in all this since we are consumers of products that are made of resources and raw materials extracted by these, or similar, companies. How can we change are behaviour to put these kind of companies out of business, or at least make them radically change their behaviour? How can we participate in saving indigenous peoples from destruction? How can we do to save natural environments and habitats, like the forests of the Amazon, for future generations?
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2010, 04:28 PM
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It's hard to know... so much of this is so far away... I wish I could do something
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:55 AM
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I know there are people on ToS who can come up with much better and more well-informed answers than mine, but I think the least that we can do here is draw public attention to these issues. And be aggressive about it. These problems are not going to go away with any meager effort on anyone's part.

About Vedanta...if I am correct the opposition to that company's project in India really got underway when a bunch of protesters loudly drew parallels to it and the RDA of Avatar. I know a few of them even dressed up as Na'vi, facepaint and all, while holding up signs that said "Save the REAL Avatar tribe!"
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Old 10-05-2010, 11:47 AM
Taronyu
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I think we as consumers of different products can do at least something to stop the rampage of the big corporations. We could be more aware of, and demand to know where the things we buy come from and how they were produced. If we do not get that information, or if the information shows that those products where created in a way that hurt people or environment, we should not buy them. If we do not buy the products than the corporations in the long run must change their ways if they will stay in business. Also we must choose politicians that implements laws that hinders the destruction. We must also elect active politicians that fight internationally to hinder opression and destruction.

Also we ourselves can get active in NGO:s or similar. We can also support the victims for the corporations in different ways (collecting money, raising opinions, creating and signing petitions and much more).

I think that there are actually many ways to go. And to get started one has to learn and collect information, that can lead to different kinds of action.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:49 AM
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Boycotting the companies would be my first suggestion however the problem with this is that it takes lots of people to make it effective and many people likely do not know or do not care about what these companies are doing. People rarely act unless it is directly affecting them. For a boycott to be successful, lots of people need to know about what's happening and need to feel strongly enough to go somewhere else for a product or stop using it completely. With things like oil, it probably won't work because it's unthinkable to ditch cars and walk/cycle for some people.

Raising awareness is the first step I think, every person that knows is one more that might have a heart and abandon these RDA like companies. All companies care about is money, take it away from them and all of a sudden they don't look so big.
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:39 AM
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Choose with your wallet? Vote for sane politicians? That will work, yeah.....not!
Seriously - politicians - just look at what Obama does instead of giving people anything BUT hope. I mean - you now have to hope that he will do anything sane... And choosing different products? What if I tell you that the same company markets products that are "fair trade and organic" and regular extortionalist products - often in the same store, to cover "all consumers demands". For them organic food and fair trade is just another marketing feat - a way to get people into buying more.
So **** that **** - the only way you are going to save the planet by your own consumption is to reduce your consumption. And how to stop corporations? Well one thing is clear - to keep giving them money for their products is not helping, voting is not helping, protesting is helping a little bit maybe, filing lawsuits may help... But eventually from what I have seen, little helps. And protests seem to only be in the media and in the minds of the people in power if it escalates (as it did last week in Stuttgart when protesters suffered from broken bones, smashed faces and lost eyesight while defending a city park against demolition).

I guess one has to look for the best means one self has. And that is not in the lifestyle:
World at Gunpoint | Derrick Jensen | Orion Magazine
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  #7  
Old 10-07-2010, 12:40 PM
Taronyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis View Post
Choose with your wallet? Vote for sane politicians? That will work, yeah.....not!
Seriously - politicians - just look at what Obama does instead of giving people anything BUT hope. I mean - you now have to hope that he will do anything sane... And choosing different products? What if I tell you that the same company markets products that are "fair trade and organic" and regular extortionalist products - often in the same store, to cover "all consumers demands". For them organic food and fair trade is just another marketing feat - a way to get people into buying more.
So **** that **** - the only way you are going to save the planet by your own consumption is to reduce your consumption. And how to stop corporations? Well one thing is clear - to keep giving them money for their products is not helping, voting is not helping, protesting is helping a little bit maybe, filing lawsuits may help... But eventually from what I have seen, little helps. And protests seem to only be in the media and in the minds of the people in power if it escalates (as it did last week in Stuttgart when protesters suffered from broken bones, smashed faces and lost eyesight while defending a city park against demolition).

I guess one has to look for the best means one self has. And that is not in the lifestyle:
World at Gunpoint | Derrick Jensen | Orion Magazine
Well, vote with your wallet or choose sane politicians (I admit it must be hard in America which only have two alternatives, both more right wing than most Europan right wing parties) is a start. But I agree that more must be done. But how shall we make people realize that? How shall we make people wanting to leave their comfortable lives and take some action? Most people are perhaps willing to do some small changes in their lives, but a total abandonment of comfortable life is probably out of the question for many.
Even now when some politicans talk about things like increased petrol prices and similar people start to protest. And if you talk with people about future generations they do not see that far, perhaps they can think about their own children, but thinking further into the future is to abstract for many.

Perhaps also many reason like "after me, the deluge."

Last edited by redpaintednavi; 10-07-2010 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:18 PM
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Yeah - the american dual party system seems even more frustrating than the 5% barrier in my country that at least allows participation of leftists & greens in the parliament. And you can still also vote for the pirate party

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpaintednavi View Post
Most people are perhaps willing to do some small changes in their lives, but a total abandonment of comfortable life is probably out of the question for many.
Even now when some politicans talk about things like increased petrol prices and similar people start to protest. And if you talk with people about future genenrations they do not see that far, perhaps they can think about their own children, but thinking further into the future is to abstract for many.
Well - it is a predicament, yes. I think one step would be to realize that the life is not as comfortable as we think it is. I mean - >8h of work, 1+1 hours of commute, 8h of sleep, thats like 6h a day to clean the home, make food, watch TV, browse ToS,... and where it was sufficient for one family member to do this 30 years ago, now both parents have to do it and still have trouble with money if they have more than one kid. So and what is the comfort? Central heating, warm showers, medical care and Media entertainment mostly. I think people are selling themseves cheap.
And then look at what people do in the remaining 6 hours and on weekends if they dont have to clean up or watch TV - they do gardening, DiY home improvement, crafts, fishing, hunting, hiking, swimming. And they actually pay for that recreation with money they earned by working. This is so paradox thinking of that these activities are what people used to do as "work" and if done properly are able to sustain them.
But the delusion works, there is no denying that and people actually think and believe that they have the most comfortable life possible. They complain about a slight increase in gas prices or food prices for organic food. They even f-ing complain about having not enough children and fear dying out or becoming an overaged society! This is totally nuts as some years ago people still talked about overpopulation as a problem that has to be tackled. So I think people just dont see how dire the situation is. There have been plenty of movies, documentaries, reports on TV and so on in the last years, awareness rises again, but the majority does not act.

They feel powerless - they feel like the only thing they are able to do is vote (at the booth or with your wallet) and they experienced that that does not help anything (At least it was the self proclaimed green envorinmental pacifist party that once in power agreed to the first german offensive war since WWII under guidance of the global forces and the social democratic chancellor moved on towards a leading position with the Gazprom corporation)

So what happens then? People get depressed, turn towards violence, start resisting or simply leave. All of this is happening - depression is on the rise all over the industrialized world, violence is a major problem with people running into schools with a gun almost monthly now, resistance picks up a bit too like last week in Stuttgart where people got beaten up by the police for defending trees and asking for a vote on a construction project - and of course people leave and start dive schools in Thailand or German bakeries in Costa Rica. Honestly, I know of little other options really...raising awareness and defending local landbase may eventually go somewhere. Walking away from it is also not bad - taking away the foundation of the system. And that does not have to be physical either. Forming secondary structures, networks, local communities, local currencies and trade - that all can help. I think the way out of this could be to "tear it to pieces" - to form many small communities and groups working together instead of a big mass society. Buy local, trade local, work local - that would be a good way to leave without physically leaving. There are some pilot projects - local communities that grow their own food, provide work for the inhabitants, have local currencies that can be traded for local food, work, manufactured goods. Or cooperatives - companies that are owned by the workers and they all get their say and a better share of the profits.
The beauty of these things is, that they actually improve comfort once they are set up - the gap is then for people to realize this, to be aware of this and to set up such structures, which of course takes work and dedication...

And yes people dont look ahead. Maybe what they see is too horrible. Mabye it is because they lost connection to their children. Maybe some think it will all end soon and other think it will just go on like this forever and both of them think they cant change anything about it anyways.
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"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2010, 10:53 AM
Taronyu
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Also if we want to fight the RDA:s of the world we could join in with, or support, environmental and human rights organisations like Amazon Watch, International Rivers or Survival International. These organisations fight to save the environment and also to save indigenous peoples from extermination.
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:03 AM
Taronyu
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And at the other end of the line we must really avoid to buy any products that are coming from the those corporations that are involved in environmental destruction or crimes against humanity.
A couple of these corporations was mentioned in the OP, here is a couple more:

-US oil company Occidental which is damaging the rainforest in Peru and Colombia and displaces indigenous peoples.
-Canadian oil company Talisman which is damaging the rainforest in Peru and displaces indigenous peoples.
-Argentinian company Pluspetrol which is damaging the rainforest in Peru and displaces indigenous peoples.

This is just a few, the list can be made much longer (if you like you can add names of other destructive RDA:s).
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpaintednavi View Post
And at the other end of the line we must really avoid to buy any products that are coming from the those corporations that are involved in environmental destruction or crimes against humanity.
A couple of these corporations was mentioned in the OP, here is a couple more:

-US oil company Occidental which is damaging the rainforest in Peru and Colombia and displaces indigenous peoples.
-Canadian oil company Talisman which is damaging the rainforest in Peru and displaces indigenous peoples.
-Argentinian company Pluspetrol which is damaging the rainforest in Peru and displaces indigenous peoples.

This is just a few, the list can be made much longer (if you like you can add names of other destructive RDA:s).
This is something I really want to start doing myself. I might try and gather some more names later.
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:43 PM
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I have lost all hope on stopping "RDAs" of our word. But I too, am trying to do my best to not support their actions in any way. When I have to buy something I usually look for fairtrade and organic stuff.
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:00 PM
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A list of corporations that commit atrocities against nature and should be avoided - Whew - that's gonna be a long list. Basically containing all of them really. Really the best way to avoid this is to buy local food and products. Maybe organic is all right in some cases. Fairtrade is nice, but not really as fair as it claims to be

So I think all of this is important - buy local, buy less of the stuff you dont really need (People spend more money on cosmetics than is required to feed the whole population of the planet several times), buy healthy stuff (do yourself a favour as you yourself are part of nature).
If you have the possibility to get a job or do some non profit work that is good for nature, that is great!
But always bear in mind, that it will take more than that. Just saying - just "voting with your wallet" wont help (and if it is only because the same company will sell you regular, organic and fairtrade products with almost the same profit). And to help people in the "developing nations" by building a deeper well to give them water is a nice gesture, as is giving them food - but I always think, it would be better to simply leave them alone - and with that I dont mean to leave them without food and water, but to stop taking their land, resources, food and water from them in the first place! I can either have a farmer plant cotton for my cheap T-Shirts and later have to help him drill deeper wells and provide him with food, or I can simply leave him to use his fields for growing food, using only as much water as the ground will provide and that can go on for much longer times...

World Gone Mad | Derrick Jensen | Orion Magazine

I think we have to really open our eyes. The insanity is everywhere. Educate yourself what action will be a wise one instead of blindly taking action. By all means do recycle and spend your money on less destructive goods and foods - but see it as a first step, not as the final solution.
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Know your idols: Who said "Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.". (Solution: "Mahatma" Ghandi)

Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"

Last edited by auroraglacialis; 10-17-2010 at 11:03 PM.
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