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  #16  
Old 01-24-2011, 06:54 PM
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Huzzah, the 200,000 goal has been reached. Apparently a ton of 'stars' are also resisting this blatant desecration of our beautiful woodland. Anything just to save a few pounds eh
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2011, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Isard View Post
Both illegal and unethical.


And why internet petitions usually accomplish nothing. Because half the signatures are bots or don't even live in the same country.

As has become my "theme" of sorts lately, I'm going to suggest that you actually spend some time writing a letter/email to a member of your government, expressing dissatisfaction, if enough people actually took the time to do this, something might actually get accomplished.
What makes you think I haven't already or or aren't going to? (I haven't yet but do plan to).

I have 'standards' too, it's just that for me, helping people in other countries is consistent with them - I've done such on MANY petitions aimed at other countries, primarily the US.
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2011, 09:52 PM
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Hey!! I try to sign this petition but they said that my Zip code is incorrect, but it is me real ZIP code ????
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  #19  
Old 01-25-2011, 10:31 PM
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Will private companies necessarily destroy forests? I don't think we have rampant RDA-like corporations whose sole purpose is to destroy the environment. As it stands right now, I'm neutral in this matter until I have firm evidence that compels me to a decision.
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  #20  
Old 01-25-2011, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post

I have 'standards' too, it's just that for me, helping people in other countries is consistent with them - I've done such on MANY petitions aimed at other countries, primarily the US.
Which is why internet petitions do nothing thank god.

You want a say? Get citizenship.
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  #21  
Old 01-25-2011, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by AC130StandingBy View Post
Will private companies necessarily destroy forests? I don't think we have rampant RDA-like corporations whose sole purpose is to destroy the environment. As it stands right now, I'm neutral in this matter until I have firm evidence that compels me to a decision.
I'd say they have a better chance of doing it than a government, especially a democratic one. The government would be more likely to see the forest's innate value, because the populace that elects them sees the forest as such (hopefully). The business would probably just see it as a resource. There's no garuantee it will destroy the forests, but better safe than sorry I say. The forests are part of the commons, they belong to everybody in the country.

Here in the US, the Wall Street cadres have a tendency to take perfectly good things in, chew them up, and spit them back out for us to have to deal with trying to fix. Then they bitch when we won't let them get their hands on something.
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  #22  
Old 01-26-2011, 12:09 AM
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Which is why internet petitions do nothing thank god.

You want a say? Get citizenship.
hahaha, definitely not.

You want other people to stop telling your government how to do things? Then make your government stop acting like it's the world police - not to mention that both the environment and basic human rights are worldwide things and if one country damages those, it has a global effect.
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  #23  
Old 01-26-2011, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
hahaha, definitely not.

You want other people to stop telling your government how to do things? Then make your government stop acting like it's the world police - not to mention that both the environment and basic human rights are worldwide things and if one country damages those, it has a global effect.

Sorry for correcting mistakes we made in the past. (Iraq) We'll be sure to let the UN clean up all future failings on our part. Well, let them pass a resolution to clean up the mess and write angry letters to us for said mess. And maybe the mess will just sort itself out while they're shaking their collective fists.


Again, internet petition have as much success as they have credibility.
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  #24  
Old 01-26-2011, 08:14 PM
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Ah . Another troll thread with Isard. I think Isard, you like globalization and such, right? Free trade and all that - theability to go anywhere, do business with anyone in the world without national governments interfering. Why is it then that you think it should be required for a citizen of the world to be a citizen of a nation state to have a say on something that is not owned by that country in the first place because it is nature?
Or take the opposite standpoint if you like - if local interests rank higher than global ones, then the people who live right next to the forest should have a say, not the much larger nation state, right?
So what shall it be - a global decision in which case I should be able to sign, or a local decision in which case probably not even 50000 voices would have to be heard.
The concept of the nation state is soooo obsolete.

And writing a personal letter to a politician? Seriously? I mean, if it is the major of your community, he may actually read it, if it is the major of a million people city or a member of the parliament for a 80 million people country - do you really think he even gets that letter? Maybe if he is not as popular. I guess, if I write a letter to the member of the pirate party that got into city council of Berlin, he will read it - and if I write a letter to someone not very well known in the socialist party of the national parliament, there is a chance that she will do so, too, but anyone who really has a lot of power has "better things to do" than reading 1000 letters a day from citizens. Sadly. Which is why democracy is not working on the scale it is attempted now.
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  #25  
Old 01-26-2011, 10:14 PM
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Well this story was on the front page of the Los Angeles Times this morning. The story talks about other similar land sales going on in other parts of Europe as well.

Europe real estate: European countries put iconic properties up for sale - latimes.com
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  #26  
Old 01-27-2011, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis View Post

And writing a personal letter to a politician? Seriously? I mean, if it is the major of your community, he may actually read it, if it is the major of a million people city or a member of the parliament for a 80 million people country - do you really think he even gets that letter? Maybe if he is not as popular. I guess, if I write a letter to the member of the pirate party that got into city council of Berlin, he will read it - and if I write a letter to someone not very well known in the socialist party of the national parliament, there is a chance that she will do so, too, but anyone who really has a lot of power has "better things to do" than reading 1000 letters a day from citizens. Sadly. Which is why democracy is not working on the scale it is attempted now.

It won't make a difference, because you won't write one.


And as soon as we're under a global government, there will be no issue with people in the UK adding their voices to US decisions and vice versa.
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  #27  
Old 01-27-2011, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis View Post
And writing a personal letter to a politician? Seriously? I mean, if it is the major of your community, he may actually read it, if it is the major of a million people city or a member of the parliament for a 80 million people country - do you really think he even gets that letter? Maybe if he is not as popular. I guess, if I write a letter to the member of the pirate party that got into city council of Berlin, he will read it - and if I write a letter to someone not very well known in the socialist party of the national parliament, there is a chance that she will do so, too, but anyone who really has a lot of power has "better things to do" than reading 1000 letters a day from citizens. Sadly. Which is why democracy is not working on the scale it is attempted now.
If you are expecting one letter standing alone to make a substantial difference, then yes you are correct. You are also correct that the actual decision maker will likely not read the letter. However, don't think that they do not make a difference. They are actually very powerful means of getting the message across. You see only a very tiny minority ever are motivated enough to write a letter. The masses are apathetic. Those letters are read by staff and they are noticed.

Form letters and internet petitions really don't count when compared to actual letters.
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  #28  
Old 01-27-2011, 02:43 PM
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Ok, so despite the outrage this has caused and the fact that the vast majority disagree, the 2 cretins in charge still plan to go through with this. Who's for a little re-enactment of the student protests?
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  #29  
Old 01-27-2011, 05:02 PM
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Who are they actually selling to?



EDIT: And I'm sure beating on police officers will change everybody's minds. Might even solve world hunger while you're at it.
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  #30  
Old 01-27-2011, 09:55 PM
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Why not try flooding the Parliamentary phone system? I know people do that here in the US sometimes to protest.
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"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden
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