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Old 03-22-2010, 10:41 PM
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Default Separation Of Environmentalism And Politics.

You know, I've never understood why environmentalism is so connected with politics. I wish it wasn't. It's so hard to have a meaningful discussion about the environment without tempers flaring or just simply being ignored because you're perceived as being on the other side of the left/right.

I was interested in conservation long before politics, and still the only reason I care for politics is because the two are connected. Why is it just the "radical leftist treehuggers" that care about our planet? Shouldn't everyone be involved in the conversation? Isn't the health of the Earth bigger than any silly disputes we might have amongst ourselves?

I'm advocating a separation of environmentalism and politics. There is no need to preach a doctrine one way or the other. Everyone should be involved.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:42 PM
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I like this idea... Unfortunately, just about everyone involved in one wants to bring it into the other
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iknimaya View Post
You know, I've never understood why environmentalism is so connected with politics. I wish it wasn't. It's so hard to have a meaningful discussion about the environment without tempers flaring or just simply being ignored because you're perceived as being on the other side of the left/right.


I know, its sad isn't it? I think its because it often involves money and people's livelihoods. It also doesn't help that some of these environmental groups oftentimes support only one political party and ideology. At least that is the perception and I'd be hard pressed to find one non-leftist environmental organization.


Quote:
I was interested in conservation long before politics, and still the only reason I care for politics is because the two are connected. Why is it just the "radical leftist treehuggers" that care about our planet? Shouldn't everyone be involved in the conversation? Isn't the health of the Earth bigger than any silly disputes we might have amongst ourselves?
I agree. Everyone should be interested in protecting the environment since everyone lives here. It isn't a left/right issue although it is made out to be .

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I'm advocating a separation of environmentalism and politics. There is no need to preach a doctrine one way or the other. Everyone should be involved.
I totally agree . I am tired of the politics involved with the environment. That is the worst thing that happened was getting politics involved because this should be a common effort. I also want to advocate that it be ideologically free as well.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:29 AM
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As Rapunzel indicated there are many in the radical left that are using Environmentalism to peddle their ideology in fact we have one member here whose name I'm not going to mention that constantly places all blame on Capitalism and Libertarianism. This member has made very clear what he thinks would be the panacea for all the world's ills even though is not true here is an example.




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Old 04-16-2010, 04:02 AM
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I love the idea of socialism, but I've come to realize that it cannot be implemented on a large scale. As for politics and environmentalism, they should be separated, but they are not. And I hate that. Although I do love a good political fight, well not so much fight more of when my friend comes in, tells someone that "Obama's doing ____ or ____" and then I look it off and debunk his argument. (Please note, I do this with anything radically stupid, I just used that as an example because it happens to me so often).

Oh and...
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by PunkMaister View Post
As Rapunzel indicated there are many in the radical left that are using Environmentalism to peddle their ideology in fact we have one member here whose name I'm not going to mention that constantly places all blame on Capitalism and Libertarianism. This member has made very clear what he thinks would be the panacea for all the world's ills even though is not true here is an example.



As do right wing radicals like you. I understand that socialism has but one problem, this is of incentives, therefore as I've stated on numerous occasions, I plan to merge different political and economic systems with socialism to make this problem null and void.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:25 AM
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I'm right-wing...

...But I don't consider myself a "Republican", just "conservative-libertarian". The republicans are just as bad as the democrats, but they tend to lean more toward the conservative side than the dems do.

I don't think my views "radical", just on-par with what the founders of America indended. That may seem radical to some, but if you look into the history of things you'll find it isn't all that strange to people like Washington or Jefferson.

Environmentalism, IMO, is "just a bad joke." Climategate sealed the deal for me.

...And, in complete opposition to about 99.9% of people who loved Avatar in any way on these forums as well as the world, I deeply respect people like Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly, and Limbaugh, and believe they're some of the most patriotic men in America today who're actually willing to speak up.

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Old 04-16-2010, 04:31 AM
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As do right wing radicals like you. I understand that socialism has but one problem, this is of incentives, therefore as I've stated on numerous occasions, I plan to merge different political and economic systems with socialism to make this problem null and void.
Except that Socialism at it's core does not promote incentives of any kind but shuns them entirely. So maybe what you should do is get the best that each system has to offer and come up with a new solution entirely instead of trying to rework Socialism at it's core. But hey is just a suggestion. What I'm saying in case you did not get it is get what is best of Socialism which in my opinion is Cooperativism. The best Capitalism which in my opinion is Free enterprise and free thinking among many others.

What other systems would you bring into the mix? Meritocracy?

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I'm right-wing...

...But I don't consider myself a "Republican", just "conservative-libertarian". The republicans are just as bad as the democrats, but they tend to lean more toward the conservative side than the dems do.

I don't think my views "radical", just on-par with what the founders of America indended. That may seem radical to some, but if you look into the history of things you'll find it isn't all that strange to people like Washington or Jefferson.

Environmentalism, IMO, is "just a bad joke." Climategate sealed the deal for me.

...And, in complete opposition to about 99.9% of people who loved Avatar in any way on these forums as well as the world, I deeply respect people like Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly, and Limbaugh, and believe they're some of the most patriotic men in America today who're actually willing to speak up.
Quoted for truth. Apparently now anybody even willing to speak out is now a Right wing radical...

Last edited by PunkMaister; 04-16-2010 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iknimaya View Post
You know, I've never understood why environmentalism is so connected with politics. I wish it wasn't. It's so hard to have a meaningful discussion about the environment without tempers flaring or just simply being ignored because you're perceived as being on the other side of the left/right.

I was interested in conservation long before politics, and still the only reason I care for politics is because the two are connected. Why is it just the "radical leftist treehuggers" that care about our planet? Shouldn't everyone be involved in the conversation? Isn't the health of the Earth bigger than any silly disputes we might have amongst ourselves?

I'm advocating a separation of environmentalism and politics. There is no need to preach a doctrine one way or the other. Everyone should be involved.
My opinion, through my own observation, is that environmentalism tends to focus on activities that are economical in nature (such as the use of resources). Economics and politics are linked through the relationship of politics making, or affecting, decisions that concern economic activity (such as regulation). To sum it up, I believe economics is what links environmentalism and politics - usually concerning negative externalities.

Last edited by Sonoran Na'vi; 04-16-2010 at 06:41 AM.
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  #10  
Old 04-16-2010, 05:13 PM
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To summarize politics in my mind: it is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I'm right-wing...

...But I don't consider myself a "Republican", just "conservative-libertarian". The republicans are just as bad as the democrats, but they tend to lean more toward the conservative side than the dems do.

I don't think my views "radical", just on-par with what the founders of America indended. That may seem radical to some, but if you look into the history of things you'll find it isn't all that strange to people like Washington or Jefferson.

Environmentalism, IMO, is "just a bad joke." Climategate sealed the deal for me.

...And, in complete opposition to about 99.9% of people who loved Avatar in any way on these forums as well as the world, I deeply respect people like Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly, and Limbaugh, and believe they're some of the most patriotic men in America today who're actually willing to speak up.
You have a talent for coming across in a respectable way.

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Originally Posted by PunkMaister View Post
Except that Socialism at it's core does not promote incentives of any kind but shuns them entirely. So maybe what you should do is get the best that each system has to offer and come up with a new solution entirely instead of trying to rework Socialism at it's core. But hey is just a suggestion. What I'm saying in case you did not get it is get what is best of Socialism which in my opinion is Cooperativism. The best Capitalism which in my opinion is Free enterprise and free thinking among many others.
I simply wish to keep socialism unchanged while destroying the issue of incentives by borrowing from other systems. It may take years of work, but thats politics and I enjoy it.

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Quoted for truth. Apparently now anybody even willing to speak out is now a Right wing radical...
I don't consider Woodsprite a radical, simply right-wing. In fact he is a friend of mine. You however are extreme right.

By the way I enjoy arguing with you due to your crudeness. You get 5/5 for funnyness all the time.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:37 AM
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My views are relatively unique, I think. I'm a centrist, libertarian, I don't really like any political party except the Pirate Party. For environmentalism, I don't believe in global warming/climate change (ironic how they renamed it when it because obvious that temperatures weren't rising after all) as far as humans causing it goes, but I accept that temperatures do go through natural cycles. But I do think that humans should avoid causing damage to the environment, even if not motivated from a 'global warming' point of view
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
My views are relatively unique, I think. I'm a centrist, libertarian, I don't really like any political party except the Pirate Party. For environmentalism, I don't believe in global warming/climate change (ironic how they renamed it when it because obvious that temperatures weren't rising after all) as far as humans causing it goes, but I accept that temperatures do go through natural cycles. But I do think that humans should avoid causing damage to the environment, even if not motivated from a 'global warming' point of view
Well damn, this whole time I didn't know you thought this. I completely agree with absolutely everything you just said... and I'm very surprised.
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