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Old 12-10-2011, 03:50 PM
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Default Huge Megadam planned! not in South America or Asia but in the USA

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-40-years.html
Quote:
Later this month, Alaskan authorities will file plans in Washington DC for a 213-metre megadam on one of the country's last remaining wild rivers: the Susitna. If approved, it would be the country's first hydroelectric megadam for 40 years, and its fifth tallest, just 8 metres shy of the Hoover dam.
...
The Susitna dam was first planned in the 1970s, but was dropped on both cost and environmental grounds.
...
In 1995, Daniel Beard, head of the US Bureau of Reclamation, the nation's main constructor of dams, declared the US dam-building era over. He cited growing environmental concerns. Dozens of dams have since been torn down to revive fisheries and reinstate river habitats.
....
Two years ago, then-governor Sarah Palin revived the scheme.

This is triple crazy.
For once - seriously? another megadam even though it is all known that these do not play well with wildlife?
Then - that very project was already declared ecologically disruptive in the 1970ies, a time when environmentalism was just beginning to take hole in government policies and now they just hink it has become benign?
And lastly Sarah Palin? Really? I mean was she not one of those climate change deniers? What made her look into reneables - I guess it must be that they can make a renewable energy project that is just as devastating as coal mining - also probably a lot of $$ signs in the eyes looking at how much heavy industry will come to Alaska to smelter metals and do all the other stuff that take so much electricity.

Anyways - I guess now is the chance for US citizens to get active against this - they dont have to go to Brazil or Asia or Chile and cannot claim that there is little they can do because the problem is happening outside their country. This is in YOUR country, folks.
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:24 PM
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So, my first thought was that one episode of the Simpsons where Mr. Burns tried to be an environmentalist with Lisa Simpson and failed utterly.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:58 PM
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Thats the point about Renewavble Energies I meant. It seems to be good, but has sideeffects which cause massive enviromental damage.
And these forms of Energy Supply Systems remind me the most of the scene in Avatar where the giant machines roll and destroy the nature.
Its the same about solar cells, wind turbines in mass.
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:21 PM
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How does solar power cause massive environmental damage?
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:26 PM
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Rare earth mining for all the electronics?
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:40 PM
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I wouldn't exactly call that massive, unless you are Dustin, terrible terrible damage, Browder.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:26 PM
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Wind is cheapy cheap and easy. If maintenance is the worst of the issues, I still vote wind
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaplant View Post
How does solar power cause massive environmental damage?
If we talk about replacing nuclear-/gas-powerplants then i mean in case of solar-power-plants areas like the following example
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:26 PM
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Mining is used for ALL energy technologies. Thats a given - if you want electricity you need mining and space. This is why I think we need to radically reduce energy demand.
But about solar energy - I made a calculation here a while ago about solar power space needs and came to about a 3-4m diameter circle for each person including industrial energy needs (in Europe weather conditions). Here is now a study showing how it is for New York. It seems that by using just the rooftops, they could fill 1/6 to 1/2 their energy needs. And that is of course a city with plenty of skyscrapers - cities with lower population density could have 100%.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/sc..._r=1&ref=earth

One constant is always that people put these megaprojects somewhere distant - on someone elses ground - where the lives of those who profit will not be impacted directly.
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Last edited by auroraglacialis; 12-11-2011 at 10:37 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2011, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis View Post
Mining is used for ALL energy technologies. Thats a given - if you want electricity you need mining and space. This is why I think we need to radically reduce energy demand.
You don't think, you know it's the only viable option, but that's easier said than done, as you probably already know.

Quote:
But about solar energy - I made a calculation here a while ago about solar power space needs and came to about a 3-4m diameter circle for each person including industrial energy needs (in Europe weather conditions). Here is now a study showing how it is for New York. It seems that by using just the rooftops, they could fill half their energy needs. And that is of course a city with plenty of skyscrapers - cities with lower population density could have 100%.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/sc..._r=1&ref=earth

One constant is always that people put these megaprojects somewhere distant - on someone elses ground - where the lives of those who profit will not be impacted directly.
Why is it that people never seem to understand this option?
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  #11  
Old 12-12-2011, 06:28 PM
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Hydro can also of course be done very ecologically.

The town I live in (Juneau), in Alaska, runs on 100% Hydro. But instead of dams; our main hydro plants are run from "tapped lakes" .. that's natural lakes where they have drilled a tunnel up into the bottom of (like a bath drain). The lake acts as a natural reservoir, though the water level does of course fluctuate. But they are deep lakes with a small footprint in harsh mountains and have very little environmental impact.

One of the backups if a partially tapped creek that has some water captured for hyrdo before returning to the ocean next to where the rest of the (un-captured) stream empties.

The other backup hyrdo is from a small dam; that again is a deep water, small-footprint, dam up in the mountains that is also used to supply drinking water for the city locally without long-distance pumping.


If all that lot fails, then we use Diesel generators for backup. But they run only very rarely.


The hydro power even supplies local mines; and in the summer cruise ships when they are docked so they don't have to keep their engines running.


Hydro can be done "right", responsibly. And building huge dams and flooding massive areas isn't the best way.

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Old 12-13-2011, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaplant View Post
How does solar power cause massive environmental damage?
In China, the true cost of Britain's clean, green wind power experiment: Pollution on a disastrous scale | Mail Online

It's the daily mail, so obviously there's an agenda as with most papers, but you still can't exaggerate something like that much . It talks primarily about wind, but the same rare earth industry is critical to solar too.

Renewable power is often just as destructive as fossil fuel or more so, and things like this are the only way for people to realise that. More sustainable versions of hydroelectric are necessarily small-scale, especially if it isn't going to interrupt a river's flow. It's possible, but needs a lot more design and engineering for a lot smaller return.

While obviously, ever single thing needs some resources mined, the type varies, as does the degree of processing required - of course, people sometimes just go for the cheapest option when more expensive ones would have a lower impact.
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:19 PM
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Today I got a NEW book from the library, I mean its from 2010 and from a Professor Doctor and established Renewable Energies Expert, and you know the funny thing that I saw when i watched some pages was a picture of the "itaipu dam" and a lot of praisings about how its good for the environment.
HAHAHA!!
Just look what they talk about
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  #14  
Old 12-14-2011, 07:31 PM
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OK guys, this is coming from an aerospace engineer. There is not one single method of generating power that is totally clean and without side effects.
Let's say that the powers that be, stop that dam from being built. What's left?
Solar? At that latitude, the footprint would be HUGE.
Nuclear? Where are you going to store the waste? Are there any seismic problems?
Wind? Perhaps IF there enough "wind days" per year, and then you have "Bird Strikes".
WHATS LEFT? Diesel, and God Forbid, Coal.
They need the power, and they are going to GET the power, one way or the other.
The ONLY way to reduce our footprint, is to DRASTICALLY reduce DEMAND, and the ONLY sure fire way to do that, over several generations, is NEGATIVE POPULATION GROWTH, on a TOTAL Global scale. Good luck with THAT.
ALL the other answers will involve side effects, we need to pick the "littlest Demon" and harness it as best we can.
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  #15  
Old 12-15-2011, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
In China, the true cost of Britain's clean, green wind power experiment: Pollution on a disastrous scale | Mail Online

It's the daily mail, so obviously there's an agenda as with most papers, but you still can't exaggerate something like that much . It talks primarily about wind, but the same rare earth industry is critical to solar too.

Renewable power is often just as destructive as fossil fuel or more so, and things like this are the only way for people to realise that. More sustainable versions of hydroelectric are necessarily small-scale, especially if it isn't going to interrupt a river's flow. It's possible, but needs a lot more design and engineering for a lot smaller return.

While obviously, ever single thing needs some resources mined, the type varies, as does the degree of processing required - of course, people sometimes just go for the cheapest option when more expensive ones would have a lower impact.
That was indeed a very interesting article. Never knew that was going on.

It seems like taking all the bad stuff and hiding it where we don't see it, which is very sad.
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