It has begun: Belo Monte Dam - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
Go Back   Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum » General Forums » Environmentalism

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-21-2012, 04:07 AM
auroraglacialis's Avatar
Tsulfätu
auroraglacialis can now be called "doctor"
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 1,622
Default It has begun: Belo Monte Dam

They have begun to build it. Protests, petitions and legal attempts have failed.
Brazil begins preliminary damming of Xingu River as protests continue
Quote:
Damming of the Xingu River has begun in Brazil to make way for the eventual construction of the hugely controversial, Belo Monte dam. The Norte Energia (NESA) consortium has begun building coffer dams across the Xingu, which will dry out parts of the river before permanent damming, reports the NGO International Rivers. Indigenous tribes, who have long opposed the dam plans on their ancestral river, conducted a peaceful protest that interrupted construction for a couple hours.
[...]
Indigenous tribes say they were not notified that Norte Energia (NESA) had begun constructing coffer dams until the river became red-colored with mud.
"When we learned what they were doing, it practically killed us with sadness,
" Josinei Arara, a member of the Arara indigenous community 10 miles downstream on the Xingu from the Pimental dam site, told International Rivers. "The dam builders have kept none of their promises to compensate our village; in they meantime, they’re assassinating our river."
[...]
Last November, a Brazilian court ruled that indigenous communities do not have a right to free, prior and informed consultation regarding the Belo Monte dam because it is physically located on tribal lands.
__________________
Know your idols: Who said "Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.". (Solution: "Mahatma" Ghandi)

Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-21-2012, 03:02 PM
ahoragi's Avatar
Taronyu
ahoragi Hunter in training
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 442
Default

Goddamn it....my worst fears have come true. I feel helpless here, not being able to help the "People" in need. I could never forgive myself if I were in the Brazilian gov't and voted to go ahead despite the damage it's causing to people.

Why don't they simply take advantage of the ocean? It has unlimited power and won't disrupt the lives of the people.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-21-2012, 06:50 PM
Moco Loco's Avatar
Dandy Lion
Moco Loco is a lion in a low place
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 2,911
Send a message via Skype™ to Moco Loco
Default

Quote:
Last November, a Brazilian court ruled that indigenous communities do not have a right to free, prior and informed consultation regarding the Belo Monte dam because it is physically located on tribal lands.
That's blatant prejudice if I've ever seen it. They're indigenous, so they don't deserve their own land?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-22-2012, 12:31 AM
versicolor's Avatar
‘Eylan
versicolor yearns for 2014/15/16. Who knows?
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis View Post
They have begun to build it. Protests, petitions and legal attempts have failed.
A very sad day.

Let's face it, they never really had any hope though did they?

The Brazilian Federal Goverment have made their agenda perfectly clear, one which will unfortunately continue regardless.

All we can do in the meantime is to continue to show our moral support and outrage no matter how futile it all may seem.

Yet another ecological disaster conceived and executed by ignorant, profiteering bastards.
__________________


"I'm probably just talking to a tree right now."




"......in here is the dream."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-22-2012, 03:12 AM
Empty Glass's Avatar
Karyu
Empty Glass has no status.
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,349
Default

I think this sentence has a mistake and should be read as such, based off what I saw in another article there:
Quote:
Last November, a Brazilian court ruled that indigenous communities do not have a right to free, prior and informed consultation regarding the Belo Monte dam because it is NOT physically located on tribal lands.
Makes a little more sense...

Last edited by Empty Glass; 01-22-2012 at 03:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-23-2012, 02:19 AM
Human No More's Avatar
Toruk Makto, Admin
Human No More has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In a datacentre
Posts: 11,748
Default

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense, because their point was that it would block off their access to the river, but it's just upstream of them.
__________________
...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:27 AM
Tsyal Makto's Avatar
Tsulfätu
Tsyal Makto glad to be home!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Body - Chicago, Spirit - Pandora
Posts: 1,873
Default

Damn shame. Of course Big Energy and all their money would win in the end.

"The strong prey on the weak."
__________________


The Dreamer's Manifesto

Mike Malloy, a voice of reason in a world gone mad.

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-23-2012, 04:09 PM
Rainbowhawk1993's Avatar
Taronyu
Rainbowhawk1993 flies on the wings of freedom, hope and liberty
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 404
Default

Well... F*** a duck. (I'm not going to say anything sad because it's pointless)

I guess the best thing to do is to think of it this way:

We may have lost this battle but we are still in the war. Keep fighting everyone.
__________________
Rainbowhawk1993 flies on the wings of Freedom, Hope and Liberty
"Truth is never given to you. You have to go out and find it."

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:17 PM
CyanRachel's Avatar
Ikran Makto
CyanRachel is proud to be one of the People
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 761
Default

This is sad, very sad only.
__________________



Your love shines the way into paradise.

Seen Avatar 25 times (Viewings: IMAX=2, Regular 3D=6, DVD/Blu-ray=17)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-25-2012, 10:31 PM
Petrucho's Avatar
Pa'li Makto
Petrucho Bronies ftw
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chile - South America
Posts: 275
Send a message via MSN to Petrucho Send a message via Skype™ to Petrucho
Default

Eh, same crap is happening in Chile, with the stupid Hidroaysén project.

Basically a bunch of hydroelectric plants that will be built in the southern part of Chile (near the Patagonia), messing up the flora and fauna of the rainforests. Main objective of this is to give energy to the miner companies in the very north of Chile (a bit stupid since the distance between the Patagonia and the Atacama desert is ~2,300 miles).
__________________

Youtube Channel
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-28-2012, 05:11 AM
applejuice's Avatar
Taronyu
applejuice Even better than the reak thing!
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In the end of the world
Posts: 363
Default

Reading a bit from the ever-present Wikipedia, I found that OAS and Queiroz-Galvao are subcontractors in the project. OAS is the Brazilian construction firm that was elected in a very dark process by our government to build a road across Tipnis. Queiroz Galvao is also another dark character here, the roads they build cost more than one million dollars a kilometer for only two lanes, ground level roads that last only a couple of months (one mile = 1.6 km and our engineers calculated an overprice of at least 25% per kilometer). OAS is pressing quite hard here to build the road across Tipnis and Morales' government is willing to go along with them. Ah, I forgot, OAS is charging the state 400 million dollars for a, supposedly planned, 69 km road across Tipnis, and the government is supposed to grant them all the pavement for the road.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-03-2012, 04:29 AM
auroraglacialis's Avatar
Tsulfätu
auroraglacialis can now be called "doctor"
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 1,622
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by versicolor View Post
All we can do in the meantime is to continue to show our moral support and outrage no matter how futile it all may seem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowhawk1993 View Post
We may have lost this battle but we are still in the war. Keep fighting everyone.
I am not sure if the ones who are opposing this, those who are affected by it and those who stand in solidarity with them have chosen the right weapons. Quiteobviously petitions and pleas dont really help against those people. Its about as effective as Grace asking Selfridge to please not bomb hometree - you cannot argue with these people, they are resistant to pleas and nice words. Especially if they cannot act from a free will but have to follow the will of lobbyists or economics. I guess the only way to stop them is a mass movement within the country, that has enough potential to topple the government. Like that is going to happen

So what are we doing? Standing by and watch as the world burns and indigenous people die. This goes to my heart and I feel helpless here. There has to be some way to put an end to this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucho View Post
Eh, same crap is happening in Chile, with the stupid Hidroaysén project.

Basically a bunch of hydroelectric plants that will be built in the southern part of Chile [...] to give energy to the miner companies in the very north of Chile
Yes, this is very sad as well. Same area where they want to build all these salmon fish farms (each puts out as much waste as a city of 100.000 people) and shoot the sea lions to prevent them from snacking on the fish.
BTW, the north of chile - the mining industry there - one of the major near future developments there is the mining of Lithium. This is needed for batteries mostly - in computers, cellphones, electric cars. An exploding industry that cannot have enough of this.
__________________
Know your idols: Who said "Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.". (Solution: "Mahatma" Ghandi)

Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-03-2012, 11:45 AM
Raptor's Avatar
Fast mover
Raptor has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Quantico, VA
Posts: 401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis View Post
I am not sure if the ones who are opposing this, those who are affected by it and those who stand in solidarity with them have chosen the right weapons. Quiteobviously petitions and pleas dont really help against those people. Its about as effective as Grace asking Selfridge to please not bomb hometree - you cannot argue with these people, they are resistant to pleas and nice words. Especially if they cannot act from a free will but have to follow the will of lobbyists or economics. I guess the only way to stop them is a mass movement within the country, that has enough potential to topple the government. Like that is going to happen
You can't be so naive as to think that the only way of stopping this project is by overthrowing the government. I'm sure there are many other fronts that can be used to counter the dam, and wouldn't be nearly as extreme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis
So what are we doing? Standing by and watch as the world burns and indigenous people die. This goes to my heart and I feel helpless here. There has to be some way to put an end to this...
Try not to generalize the indigenous as unequivocally good. True, they should have the right to maintain their culture and their territory, but we shouldn't only consider the viewpoint of the indigenous. Don't get me wrong, I am against the Belo Monte Dam, but it's ridiculous to treat every industry vs. nature/indigenous in a black-and-white manner.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-04-2012, 12:23 AM
auroraglacialis's Avatar
Tsulfätu
auroraglacialis can now be called "doctor"
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 1,622
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
You can't be so naive as to think that the only way of stopping this project is by overthrowing the government
That is not what I said. I said that the government has to be afraid of being toppled over. That does not have to mean that it will actually happen and it does not even mean that it has to be a revolution. In the most benign case this could mean simply that the government fears of loosing public support so much that they will not be in office after the next election or have to resign before that due to public demand. This is the kind of strength a movement needs to actually pressure politics. No one will listen to a small minority with some demands and frankly even a large minority wont do much.
I keep pointing to the German example of the anti nuclear movement. It took decades of large scale activism, protesting, civil disobedience and uncivil disobedience, of lobbying, forming a political party (that then dumped its ideas once in power) and for many years the majority of Germans would have voted against nuclear power. But in the end the final decision was made after the Fukushima incident which enraged people so much that the people in power actually felt that if they do not act to the will of the people now, they will completly loose out, the government coalition of parties could break apart and the two ruling parties could loose all credibility to being democratic for the years to come.

Quote:
Try not to generalize the indigenous as unequivocally good. True, they should have the right to maintain their culture and their territory, but we shouldn't only consider the viewpoint of the indigenous.
Yes we should. Sorry, there is almost nothing that can justify anything else. It is the land of their ancestors, it is their home, their territory, their livelihood, their world. If they are not "good" - it does not matter - then maybe we have to talk to them, discuss with them, show them things that are not so great that they are doing and explain it to them, support women, provide help if they ask for it - that is all fine. Flooding their territory, deforesting their land or building roads through it is not. That is occupation.

There are reasons that can justify conquest and occupation. I am glad that the land I live in now was conquered by an alliance of different nations. But that is an exception. And a very rare one at that.
__________________
Know your idols: Who said "Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.". (Solution: "Mahatma" Ghandi)

Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-04-2012, 01:50 AM
Human No More's Avatar
Toruk Makto, Admin
Human No More has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In a datacentre
Posts: 11,748
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
Try not to generalize the indigenous as unequivocally good. True, they should have the right to maintain their culture and their territory, but we shouldn't only consider the viewpoint of the indigenous. Don't get me wrong, I am against the Belo Monte Dam, but it's ridiculous to treat every industry vs. nature/indigenous in a black-and-white manner.
Well said. Romanticising people is just as bad, if they're being kept as some kind of 'human museum' where people go on about how wonderful and perfect they are and artificially provide everything to make it look as if they aren't aware of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis View Post
Yes we should. Sorry, there is almost nothing that can justify anything else. It is the land of their ancestors, it is their home, their territory, their livelihood, their world. If they are not "good" - it does not matter - then maybe we have to talk to them, discuss with them, show them things that are not so great that they are doing and explain it to them, support women, provide help if they ask for it - that is all fine. Flooding their territory, deforesting their land or building roads through it is not. That is occupation.
...yet that doesn't make them some kind of 'perfect people'. With how you talk about similar examples, you'd think they never had disease, famine or crime, or indeed, even warfare; yet they do. While here, the government in brazil has not considered them as it should, see my above point - they shouldn't be considered 'special', just different, which should be enough in itself to protect their right to make their own decisions.
__________________
...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Visit our partner sites:

      pandoraworld.ru



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:44 PM.

Based on the Planet Earth theme by Themes by Design


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
All images and clips of Avatar are the exclusive property of 20th Century Fox.