How To Make Earth's Population Sustainable? - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
Go Back   Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum » General Forums » Environmentalism

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-03-2010, 05:31 AM
Tsyal Makto's Avatar
Tsulfätu
Tsyal Makto glad to be home!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Body - Chicago, Spirit - Pandora
Posts: 1,873
Arrow How To Make Earth's Population Sustainable?

Now I chose the thread title carefully because I don't want this to come off like a radical population-control topic. Just hear me out...

We are approaching 7 billion people on this planet. We are over it's current carrying capacity, and if we do not change our way of life, we are headed for trouble. This is obviously quite a touching issue, because population control in a lot of people's minds means strict one-child laws, forced sterilization, and forced abortion. Obviously going down that road would lead to just as many problems as we currently face. So my two questions are...

- How do we curb population growth? Obviously Fortress or Starship Troopers style population control would be pretty bad, so how do we get people to voluntarily reduce the number of children they have?

- If we can't get the population to decrease, how can we increase the planet's carrying capacity? How do we support billions of people, while still leaving room for Mother Nature's other creatures?

Last edited by Tsyal Makto; 04-03-2010 at 06:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-03-2010, 06:13 AM
Sovereign's Avatar
Sig-Making Guy
Sovereign is no longer in Washington, D.C.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 335
Send a message via AIM to Sovereign
Default

In my opinion, it's all a question of energy. With sufficient (clean) energy we can grow all the food and desalinate all the water we need. We would also have the energy to build whatever structures we needed.
__________________

(Click image to give me Tsahaylu! -- Tsahaylu Count: 127)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-07-2010, 05:35 AM
Spock's Avatar
Ikran Makto
Spock is hopeful.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Posts: 886
Default

Socialism, and a concerted effort from humanity in order to advance technology. This way we could inhabit other planets and spread the population out over the milky way galaxy. Maybe 2 billion per planet?
__________________
Live long and prosper
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:33 AM
Woodsprite's Avatar
Olo'eyktan
Woodsprite is very busy.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 3,162
Default

Socialism is a nice even way to kill everyone off. Overpopulation is one of the most dangerous lies to date. You can fit the entire earth's population in the county of Jacksonville, Florida and they'd still be able to move around. Sure, the big cities are crowded, but if you don't like the city, move! The earth is a vast place. Some'd say, "Only 3% is habitable." Nice point, but the average human brain uses 3% of its capacity; are we all imbeciles?

Sorry if I'm being zealous about this, but we've got some crazy people out there. I know you, Tsyal, don't want simple population control like what the Chinese have, I understand your point. But the people currently in power don't care. I've written extensively on this before.

Quote:
"In order to stabilize world population we must eliminate 350,000 people per day."

--Jacques Cousteau, Demanding Accountability, United Nations Development Fund for Women, 1994; pp. 84-85
Quote:
"People are the cause of all the problems; we have too many of them; we need to get rid of some of them, and this [ban of DDT] is as good a way as any."

--Charles Wurster, Environmental Defence Fund
Quote:
"...must either reduce the earth's human population to 1 billion or reduce the standard of living to an agrarian 'peasant' status."

--Convention on Biological Diversity signed by the United States in New York, June 4, 1993; announced on the Platform for the United Nations urban-ecological summit held in Istabul, Turkey; June 1996
Quote:
"The world has cancer, and the cancer is man."

--Alan Gregg, Mankind at the Turning Point, 1974
Quote:
"A total world population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."

--Ted Turner, CNN
Quote:
"If I could be reincarnated, I would wish to return to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels."

--Prince Philip, President-World Wildlife Fund
7 miles north of Elberton, Georgia on Highway 77, 100 yards off the road on the right are the Georgia Guidstones, which were erected on March 22, 1980, by the Masonic Lodge. The stones are full of Masonic symbols. On these stones are the "Ten Commandments of the New Age." On one part of it it reads, "AUTHOR: R. C. CHRISTIAN (A PSEUDONYM)" Under this is written, "SPONSORS: A SMALL GROUP OF AMERICANS WHO SEEK THE AGE OF REASON." Here's where it gets a little creepy. The first "commandment" states, "MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500,000,000 IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE."

Last edited by Woodsprite; 04-07-2010 at 06:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-07-2010, 08:45 PM
ZenitYerkes's Avatar
Karyu
ZenitYerkes - Progress means expanding everyone's freedom
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,329
Default

The problem with overpopulation is not the people, it's their mouths. Think on how many acres of harvesting zones you need to feed a city.

We can keep living the way we do because there are poor countries that don't take the same resources as us, because if everybody had the same life standards as we have, we would be having now a nuclear war for the last clean water or food remaining on Earth.

And please, don't take it with socialism or any other ideology. Ideas don't kill. People who want to take all the power yes.
__________________
I love Plato, but I love Truth more - Aristotle
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-08-2010, 04:52 AM
Lord Duke the Baron
Grif is Grif
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 984
Default

I'm still waiting for the next plague... I have mixed feelings about that
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-08-2010, 05:07 AM
Tsyal Makto's Avatar
Tsulfätu
Tsyal Makto glad to be home!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Body - Chicago, Spirit - Pandora
Posts: 1,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
We can keep living the way we do because there are poor countries that don't take the same resources as us, because if everybody had the same life standards as we have, we would be having now a nuclear war for the last clean water or food remaining on Earth.
We're going to be reaching that point, though, as third world countries continue to develop.

Is there a way to bioengineer crops to have higher calorie counts, so people need to consume less of them to get the same nutritional benefit?

Grif - I hope it doesn't get to that, but I fear if we do not take action now, it will. Nature is a self regulating system, and if we step too far out of line, we're going to get hell for it.
__________________


The Dreamer's Manifesto

Mike Malloy, a voice of reason in a world gone mad.

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden

Last edited by Tsyal Makto; 04-08-2010 at 05:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-09-2010, 08:21 AM
Spock's Avatar
Ikran Makto
Spock is hopeful.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Posts: 886
Default

I don't have the energy to debate this issue for about the 10th time in as many weeks.

Over and out.
__________________
Live long and prosper
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Anima's Avatar
Sngä’iyu
Anima is lurking your thread...
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 70
Default

Eat less meat. That would make the food last for about 10 times more people and at the same time reduce the pollution and the use of fossil fuels and water:

Environmental effects of meat production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GoVeg.com // Meat and the Environment // Wasted Resources // Energy

Meat vs. Grain & Vegetable Production - Energy Consumer - extension.usu.edu

The Greener Grass: Energy and Meat
__________________


"You may find that having is not so pleasing as wanting. This is not logical but it is often true"
(Spock)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-09-2010, 02:32 PM
Fosus's Avatar
Tsulfätu
Fosus can not has status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,569
Send a message via Skype™ to Fosus
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
...Nice point, but the average human brain uses 3% of its capacity..
That's just simply not true. Average human brain uses 100% of it's capacity and this is not the thing wrong in your post.

As for the original question, I think it's going to happen automatically. While overpopulating the Earth, we are at the same time polluting the air. Global Warming will eventually come to the point that certain parts of the planet will turn into desert, and people living in those areas will die..

Last edited by Fosus; 04-09-2010 at 02:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-09-2010, 08:10 PM
Woodsprite's Avatar
Olo'eyktan
Woodsprite is very busy.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 3,162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fosus View Post
That's just simply not true. Average human brain uses 100% of it's capacity and this is not the thing wrong in your post.
..Um, no. I know what you're thinking, and that's not what I meant.

The brain usage throughout our lives is 100%. Absolutely. That's concerning mechanical use. By capacity I meant the full potential of our brain storage capacity, as in the volume used to store information is maximum 3%, and that's going waay far off a limb. I was wrong, I admit: the full storage is far less than 3%. Some scientists say it's only 0.01-0.1% you use to store information in one given lifetime. In other words, if we were to live 1000 years, we would probably end up using about... say, 13-14% of our information storage. That's my guess. No one truly knows the full storage capacity. Oldest recorded death was 122 years, and calculated out he used (assuming he took in information at a constant rate) about 64 petabytes of information, and he still had a LOT more to go, probably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fosus View Post
While overpopulating the Earth, we are at the same time polluting the air. Global Warming will eventually come to the point that certain parts of the planet will turn into desert, and people living in those areas will die..
Mmm... I'll just let this one slide like I did the "am I losing it?" thread. That's for another long, long, LONG.... discussion.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-16-2010, 01:41 AM
Banned
PunkMaister censored by the PTB
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ponce, Puerto Rico
Posts: 306
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock View Post
Socialism, and a concerted effort from humanity in order to advance technology. This way we could inhabit other planets and spread the population out over the milky way galaxy. Maybe 2 billion per planet?
Yeah right a system that has failed time and time again and that has caused more environmental damage wherever it has sprung than any capitalist country, get real!


Anyway currently the overpopulation problem is a problem that lies on the developing world or third world and the industrialized developed world where birth rates have dropped dramatically in siome countries beyond what anyone would consider acceptable levels in fact.

Last edited by PunkMaister; 04-16-2010 at 01:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-16-2010, 06:56 AM
Sonoran Na'vi's Avatar
Pa'li Makto
Sonoran Na'vi is impatient to continue onto grad school.
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 299
Default

I agree with those that say we must consider the use of resources in our analysis of over-population. Holding everything else equal, the size of a population appears to be a problem when the amount of resources available are no longer sufficient to support the population.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-16-2010, 04:00 PM
Fosus's Avatar
Tsulfätu
Fosus can not has status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,569
Send a message via Skype™ to Fosus
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkMaister View Post
Yeah right a system that has failed time and time again and that has caused more environmental damage wherever it has sprung than any capitalist country, get real!
In a way, Na'vi are communists. The idea itself is very awesome, It just doesn't work thanks to human nature...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-16-2010, 07:00 PM
Human No More's Avatar
Toruk Makto, Admin
Human No More has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In a datacentre
Posts: 11,751
Default

Technically, they are neither. There's no capitalism, certainly, but equally, there is definitely free will, individualism and personal ownership of things.
__________________
...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Visit our partner sites:

      pandoraworld.ru



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:23 AM.

Based on the Planet Earth theme by Themes by Design


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
All images and clips of Avatar are the exclusive property of 20th Century Fox.