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  #1  
Old 11-17-2011, 03:12 PM
Mika's Avatar
Tsamsiyu
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Default Feminine Reality

For all my Sisters!


We are humans
We are bodies
The rhythm
and flow
matters.
Substance
matrix of
life giving
beginning
Natural!

2011

I'm angry tonight
the issue
seems to be
related to the degradation
of woman specific
and Gaia in general
i wonder
if it correlates

Course
one doesn't
really want to know
what i did with that

Rent holes tears
in the fabric
of the Universe
Enough of this damn control
lets let chaos
reign for a bit

If suddenly
there was a rapid
delination
of masculine principle
would it really
be so bad

Imagine a world
more in line
with gentle and tenderness
of those souls
whom for nine months
could carry life

A concourse of woman
ancient council
of Elders and others agree
Things need to change
soon and rapidly

There is no need
for 'blood'
as men percieve
to be spilt
on the ground
Monthy do
the feminine spirits
take care of it

when will
the masculine understand

2011


These are the rules
of a feminine household
Every woman is entitled
to one Bitch Day a month ..
a two or more if older ..
and to none for this
do they need to answer

Nothing she says or does
on that day
can be held against her
it makes up for
the other twenty seven

This is how
we survived
me and
teenage daughters
and the masculine
agreed with it
made cohabitating
much more liveable
and forgiveable

Tis a gift
i have shared
with many
whom upon
finding it
only respond
Heart felt
Grateful

It makes
living with self
and others
so much more
bearable!

2011

Though the most
helpful strategy
I ever witnessed
from the masculine principle
on cognizanting
those days or moments
was to use
a great deal
of healthy
non-gender related humor
to mitigate and difuse,
for some strange reason
seems to work the best
most often!


2011
__________________
It was impossible not to have, It's impossible not to be, It's impossible not to still ...!



What this world really needs is more artists and environmentalists!



"Its only 'here' that we lose perspective, out at the Cosmic Consciousness Level things get a lot clearer. For example, there is an actual star pattern that is traced in the shape of a Willow Tree, across the breadth of the Milky Way! And no wonder Indigenous peoples refer to the 'here after' as the Happy Hunting Grounds! Has it ever occured to anyone why the bioluminescence dots, on the Na'vi!"
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  #2  
Old 11-18-2011, 12:17 AM
Pa'li Makto's Avatar
Palulukan Makto
Pa'li Makto : Once ate an octopus.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,909
Default

Oh this is good stuff Mika!
I like your discussion about Gaia especially.
__________________
Always listening to The Orb: O.O.B.E...



My fanfic

"The man who learns only what others know is as ignorant as if he learns nothing.
The treasures of knowledge are the most rare, and guarded most harshly."
-Chronicle of the First Age


"Try to see the forest through her eyes."

Réalisant mon espoir, Je me lance vers la gloire. Je ne regrette rien. (Making my hope come true, I hurl myself toward glory. I regret nothing.)

Last edited by Pa'li Makto; 11-18-2011 at 12:20 AM.
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2011, 12:34 PM
Pamtseo Vitra
Fkeu'itan hasn't been here in years.
 
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I think people took it the wrong way, but it's not completely impossible to do that.

When I first read it, it seemed that you were saying that all men are fundamentally bad people, and I too felt a little bit insulted, as I suppose you can understand.

But I know you have talked on occasion before about the concept of people having the 'male' and 'female' inside of them, so as I read on to the other poems, it became a little more clear that you weren't necessarily discriminating against genders specifically. Although, I must say that I would prefer talking about the 'hard' and 'soft' sides of people, rather than straight gender, as that can lead to confusion like we saw here.

Indeed, things like anger, agression, competition are often seen as 'male' traits, and themes like co-operation, discussion and understanding could be seen as 'female' traits, but I think it's fair to say that every single one of us has that within them, simply as human beings.
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2011, 02:44 PM
Mika's Avatar
Tsamsiyu
Mika Finally got her dream job. Full Time Librarian! :")
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 727
Default

Pali and Fkeu'itan, thank you both for your comments and insights, they are very much appreciated!

Poetry is meant to be subjective, and mine no less so, and its challenging when it incorporates many layers of meaning to it.

First to any misinterpretations, that could be construed to be seen as negating 'men', i apologise, as sincerly it was not my intent, but in hindsight, and reflecting on your comments, I guess i can see how that might have come across.

It was a series of poems, that i had written a while ago, and are meant to 'all' be read to fully understand the theme and context of the whole posting, which was actually, the reason i had written them that way.

The first poem, simply meant to affirm, that wholeness and naturalness of a women's time of month. The emphasis, on this, as it relates to the rest of the poetry, is because this wholenss, the natural sacredness of women, is particularily, one of the most degraded aspects of being female, in almost all cultures around the world. There are more negative and slang terms, for a women's time, than there are any other aspect in the world. And as woman, living in cultures and societys' where we hear those negative concepts, it is very difficult not to to take them, and think that way about bodies flow, without that disdain. So the first thing that needed to be addressed was to say, we need to honor ourselves as woman, that this is not a curse, but a 'gift'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika View Post


We are humans
We are bodies
The rhythm
and flow
matters.
Substance
matrix of
life giving
beginning
Natural!

2011



That said, PMS is a very concrete reality, both females, and males know it, well. The 'Bitch Day' poem was to elucidate, the underlying currents in the Gaia poem, but it was also more so, to give a teaching, from my own real life experiences. Women, perhaps more so from my generations and previous, were conditioned and expected not to have outward shows of anger, or outbursts. A ridiculous impossibility, as anger is a normal emotion, but when it cannot be expressed or released, in ongoing healthy ways, it gets stored up, and sooner or later, is likely to come out, and explosively. Hense where the concept and perception of 'Bitch' comes from. Yet there is also a cyclic hormonal factor that influences as well. The 'grace' that i learned for myself, and for my daughters, was not to judge them, myself, and even managed to get the 'males' in our lives, to see it that way as well. That if typically if as females we are easy to get along with most of a month, that the one or two days, that we seem to lose our cool, could be put in context, and not held against us. And it worked, worked well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika View Post
These are the rules
of a feminine household
Every woman is entitled
to one Bitch Day a month ..
a two or more if older ..
and to none for this
do they need to answer

Nothing she says or does
on that day
can be held against her
it makes up for
the other twenty seven

This is how
we survived
me and
teenage daughters
and the masculine
agreed with it
made cohabitating
much more liveable
and forgiveable

Tis a gift
i have shared
with many
whom upon
finding it
only respond
Heart felt
Grateful

It makes
living with self
and others
so much more
bearable!

2011
And this next one, was to validate something very positive from those 'males' in dealing with those 'B' days. That if they could lighten the day with humor, good humor, not the kind that could be hurtful (aka gender related jokes), that it helped tremendously to ease the tension, and for all of us, not to take it so seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika View Post

Though the most
helpful strategy
I ever witnessed
from the masculine principle
on cognizanting
those days or moments
was to use
a great deal
of healthy
non-gender related humor
to mitigate and difuse,
for some strange reason
seems to work the best
most often!


2011

So putting the Gaia poem in context, first i remember that there was a new's item that sparked it as well, at the time, but i can't remember what that was now, whatever it was had to do it had generated insights regarding how we as humans' disrespect the earth, was not so different, in some cultures around the world, than how woman,were disrespected in general, by partriarcal societys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika View Post

I'm angry tonight
the issue
seems to be
related to the degradation
of woman specific
and Gaia in general
i wonder
if it correlates
The 'B' poem was to elucidate the following level of angry energy, outburst expression. When that 'hormone' rush comes on, its intensity can feel like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika View Post
Course
one doesn't
really want to know
what i did with that

Rent holes tears
in the fabric
of the Universe
Enough of this damn control
lets let chaos
reign for a bit

This next whole piece. was more speaking to qualities, that society, psychology, etc tend to refer to as masculine qualities, such as competition, humans being naturally agressive and violent, that the way of 'war' (hense the reference to blood spilt by violence), were considered the norm. Versus, the more feminine qualities of cooperation, community, nurturing, sustaining. But definitely i agree those 'traits' can be found and manifested in either gender, and are not presupposed confined to one or the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika View Post
If suddenly
there was a rapid
delination
of masculine principle
would it really
be so bad

Imagine a world
more in line
with gentle and tenderness
of those souls
whom for nine months
could carry life

A concourse of woman
ancient council
of Elders and others agree
Things need to change
soon and rapidly

There is no need
for 'blood'
as men percieve
to be spilt
on the ground
Monthy do
the feminine spirits
take care of it

when will
the masculine understand
2011

I hope that kind of clarify' more the intent, and subjective emotional message in the poetry.

But again i would affirm, i never intended it to be delinitating to an equally respected half of the population.
__________________
It was impossible not to have, It's impossible not to be, It's impossible not to still ...!



What this world really needs is more artists and environmentalists!



"Its only 'here' that we lose perspective, out at the Cosmic Consciousness Level things get a lot clearer. For example, there is an actual star pattern that is traced in the shape of a Willow Tree, across the breadth of the Milky Way! And no wonder Indigenous peoples refer to the 'here after' as the Happy Hunting Grounds! Has it ever occured to anyone why the bioluminescence dots, on the Na'vi!"
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2011, 11:45 PM
Pa'li Makto's Avatar
Palulukan Makto
Pa'li Makto : Once ate an octopus.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,909
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You know, I really need to add that with the 'masculine principle' ie the patriarchy, the system of society and government not only discriminates/ignores women but also children, the obese and people who don't fit into the ideal image of a bronzed muscle man, mentally and physically disabled men and women, the elderly and those who are culturally different from the host country. This needs to be said because although Mika's work can be interpreted in many ways, the masculine principle that she mentions refers to a system that only seems to show one version of man, the physically able, the strong and the confident one who is able to compete with other men and provide for his family. So the masculine principle is a concern not only for women but for men who are different then this 'hero' image and for the elderly and children. So really, the masculine principle only caters for a minority.

I got most of this stuff from studying gender in historiography in university and we had a huge discussion about the patriarchy/ masculine principle and what it stands for and what it doesn't stand for.

This is my interpretation but I think I needed to put this down.
__________________
Always listening to The Orb: O.O.B.E...



My fanfic

"The man who learns only what others know is as ignorant as if he learns nothing.
The treasures of knowledge are the most rare, and guarded most harshly."
-Chronicle of the First Age


"Try to see the forest through her eyes."

Réalisant mon espoir, Je me lance vers la gloire. Je ne regrette rien. (Making my hope come true, I hurl myself toward glory. I regret nothing.)

Last edited by Pa'li Makto; 11-19-2011 at 11:48 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2011, 12:03 PM
Tsamsiyu
Aquaplant has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 691
Default

If something needs to stop, it is the whole us vs. them mentality that is applied to everything these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto View Post
You know, I really need to add that with the 'masculine principle' ie the patriarchy, the system of society and government not only discriminates/ignores women but also children, the obese and people who don't fit into the ideal image of a bronzed muscle man, mentally and physically disabled men and women, the elderly and those who are culturally different from the host country. This needs to be said because although Mika's work can be interpreted in many ways, the masculine principle that she mentions refers to a system that only seems to show one version of man, the physically able, the strong and the confident one who is able to compete with other men and provide for his family. So the masculine principle is a concern not only for women but for men who are different then this 'hero' image and for the elderly and children. So really, the masculine principle only caters for a minority.

I got most of this stuff from studying gender in historiography in university and we had a huge discussion about the patriarchy/ masculine principle and what it stands for and what it doesn't stand for.

This is my interpretation but I think I needed to put this down.
Apparently it caters more than enough people because it is still around, so go figure. I am almost a polar opposite of such ideal, but I'm lucky in the sense that my intellect allows me to see past such nonsense, even though it, and many other things taken for granted in this day and age, are the norm that keep our society running in its current state.

So it begs the question, are we broken, and thus have constructed a broken system that works for us, or have we constructed a broken system that breaks us to work for it?
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2011, 06:24 PM
Mika's Avatar
Tsamsiyu
Mika Finally got her dream job. Full Time Librarian! :")
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 727
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto View Post
You know, I really need to add that with the 'masculine principle' ie the patriarchy, the system of society and government not only discriminates/ignores women but also children, the obese and people who don't fit into the ideal image of a bronzed muscle man, mentally and physically disabled men and women, the elderly and those who are culturally different from the host country. This needs to be said because although Mika's work can be interpreted in many ways, the masculine principle that she mentions refers to a system that only seems to show one version of man, the physically able, the strong and the confident one who is able to compete with other men and provide for his family. So the masculine principle is a concern not only for women but for men who are different then this 'hero' image and for the elderly and children. So really, the masculine principle only caters for a minority.

I got most of this stuff from studying gender in historiography in university and we had a huge discussion about the patriarchy/ masculine principle and what it stands for and what it doesn't stand for.

This is my interpretation but I think I needed to put this down.
Pali, i can not thank you enough, for your sharing your insight, and taking the concept so far deeper, into the whole complexity of issues. I was simply profoundly moved when you added this elaboration, again thank you, for sharing with us all this gift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaplant View Post
If something needs to stop, it is the whole us vs. them mentality that is applied to everything these days.

Apparently it caters more than enough people because it is still around, so go figure. I am almost a polar opposite of such ideal, but I'm lucky in the sense that my intellect allows me to see past such nonsense, even though it, and many other things taken for granted in this day and age, are the norm that keep our society running in its current state.

So it begs the question, are we broken, and thus have constructed a broken system that works for us, or have we constructed a broken system that breaks us to work for it?
Aquaplant to you thank you, as well, that ^ question just propounds, the need to be discussed on its own merit. When i have more time i will come back to it, but definitely encourage a discussion that examines that whole concept. I think its so deep, a question, i still haven't gotten my thoughts around it, but long to!
__________________
It was impossible not to have, It's impossible not to be, It's impossible not to still ...!



What this world really needs is more artists and environmentalists!



"Its only 'here' that we lose perspective, out at the Cosmic Consciousness Level things get a lot clearer. For example, there is an actual star pattern that is traced in the shape of a Willow Tree, across the breadth of the Milky Way! And no wonder Indigenous peoples refer to the 'here after' as the Happy Hunting Grounds! Has it ever occured to anyone why the bioluminescence dots, on the Na'vi!"
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2011, 12:22 AM
Pa'li Makto's Avatar
Palulukan Makto
Pa'li Makto : Once ate an octopus.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,909
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Thank you so much Mika. As for Aquaplants question I'd have to pick the 2nd option. Although I have to add that society is built by our ancestors and modified ever so much by ourselves. So really you'd be scratching your head trying to wonder who created the broken system in the first place.

Also as a comment on my previous post. What I mean by the patriarchal system not catering to everyone is that even though we do get around in this system, most of us feel disillusioned because we don't fit into these rigid stereotypes that as a whole the society lays out for us. This helps to create things like the need for plastic surgery, exercise equipment and crazy diets and the glut of material goods for people to consume and enhance their feeling of self worth. Also I must note that there are many societies that help to create a whole. A person's family count as one, the media as another, the workplace as another. Really the list goes on and on.
__________________
Always listening to The Orb: O.O.B.E...



My fanfic

"The man who learns only what others know is as ignorant as if he learns nothing.
The treasures of knowledge are the most rare, and guarded most harshly."
-Chronicle of the First Age


"Try to see the forest through her eyes."

Réalisant mon espoir, Je me lance vers la gloire. Je ne regrette rien. (Making my hope come true, I hurl myself toward glory. I regret nothing.)
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2011, 10:46 AM
Tsamsiyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto View Post
Thank you so much Mika. As for Aquaplants question I'd have to pick the 2nd option. Although I have to add that society is built by our ancestors and modified ever so much by ourselves. So really you'd be scratching your head trying to wonder who created the broken system in the first place.
I guess you are correct in the same sense that a cold shower feels awful when you turn it all the way down to the cold, but when you slowly move down the temperature while getting used to it at the same time, you don't notice the change nearly as much. Maybe we have just slowly become accustomed to living in the horror our society is today, or at least most people have, because I'm afraid that I never will.

Quote:
Also as a comment on my previous post. What I mean by the patriarchal system not catering to everyone is that even though we do get around in this system, most of us feel disillusioned because we don't fit into these rigid stereotypes that as a whole the society lays out for us. This helps to create things like the need for plastic surgery, exercise equipment and crazy diets and the glut of material goods for people to consume and enhance their feeling of self worth. Also I must note that there are many societies that help to create a whole. A person's family count as one, the media as another, the workplace as another. Really the list goes on and on.
I would say that you are making it too complex, when it is really much simpler than that. Worth is pretty much measured in monetary success these days, but those who have already achieved said success in their opinion, turn their eyes towards other sources of self worth, now that they feel that being just monetarily successful isn't doing the trick anymore. Some people just stay on the money track, hoarding more and more, thinking that the next trillion or so will bring them happiness, but it won't.

The ones who seek these other sources that you mentioned just seek the same hollow goal of constant improvement, but they only pursue different things instead of one. All in all, it's the need to be successful in one's own eyes, or in the eyes of others, but it's all product of the society that is based on success, progress and endless growth, which is an impossibility in itself.

I think the stereotypes that you are referring to work at more subtle levels, but I guess one could say that at least the man stereotype has always been the can do variety, which says that you are nothing but the measurement of your achievements. Then again this is one of those things that are not written anywhere so one could check if that's correct, but they are rather the current paradigm that is in the collective that is our society and us within it.

At times I wonder why I ramble on so much, but I guess that's the only thing I'm good at.
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2011, 01:24 AM
Pa'li Makto's Avatar
Palulukan Makto
Pa'li Makto : Once ate an octopus.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,909
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I think you're quite good at rambling Aquaplant, I especially enjoy reading your interpretations and trying to answer your interesting questions. IMO, rambling is a sign of contemplation and contemplation can be seen as philosophising which is critical for new thought and ideas.

I like your analogy of the cold shower, I think it helps to explain the social climate of the time where I do believe we have all been desensitised through the news and peers ect to accept and normalise everything that happens around us. For example, I'm still shocked to see some people at car crashes taking pictures on their phones with unreadable faces.

As for monetary value, I think you're spot on there. Money appears to amount to everything that most people work for, save for volunteers and community based workers-although they still get paid a salary. What you seem to describe looks a bit like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, which places self actualisation and ego needs above safety and survival. Such as someone with their basic needs such as a steady income met and then going on to consume luxury goods or other sources of measuring or improving self worth like what you said here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaplant View Post

Worth is pretty much measured in monetary success these days, but those who have already achieved said success in their opinion, turn their eyes towards other sources of self worth, now that they feel that being just monetarily successful isn't doing the trick anymore
Here's the diagram of the needs theory. I think it's a little too rigid to describe everyone but I think it illustrates your point well.

__________________
Always listening to The Orb: O.O.B.E...



My fanfic

"The man who learns only what others know is as ignorant as if he learns nothing.
The treasures of knowledge are the most rare, and guarded most harshly."
-Chronicle of the First Age


"Try to see the forest through her eyes."

Réalisant mon espoir, Je me lance vers la gloire. Je ne regrette rien. (Making my hope come true, I hurl myself toward glory. I regret nothing.)

Last edited by Pa'li Makto; 11-26-2011 at 01:34 AM.
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  #11  
Old 11-26-2011, 11:29 AM
Tsamsiyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto View Post
I think you're quite good at rambling Aquaplant, I especially enjoy reading your interpretations and trying to answer your interesting questions. IMO, rambling is a sign of contemplation and contemplation can be seen as philosophising which is critical for new thought and ideas.
Yes I know, I'm good at useless things, and this is one of them.

Quote:
I like your analogy of the cold shower, I think it helps to explain the social climate of the time where I do believe we have all been desensitised through the news and peers ect to accept and normalise everything that happens around us. For example, I'm still shocked to see some people at car crashes taking pictures on their phones with unreadable faces.
I for one am already practically immune to all manner of slaughtering humans, but the one thing that makes me so sick I can barely stand, is when I see animals mistreated or killed. For example, I can watch the Game of throne series where they cut of heads of people with swords, slice their throats and pull out their entrails like it was nothing, but I just couldn't bring myself to watch the end of the episode where they were about to kill a dog chained to a post. I first covered my eyes and did not want to look but then I just turned the whole thing off.

I guess I know that we humans deserve whatever we have coming our way, but animals should not be subjected to our cruelty, because they have no part in the madness that rules us. Animals already suffer their own woes that come from their instinct driven lives, even though suffering is not something they understand in the same sense we do.

Quote:
As for monetary value, I think you're spot on there. Money appears to amount to everything that most people work for, save for volunteers and community based workers-although they still get paid a salary. What you seem to describe looks a bit like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, which places self actualisation and ego needs above safety and survival. Such as someone with their basic needs such as a steady income met and then going on to consume luxury goods or other sources of measuring or improving self worth like what you said here:
With money one can get almost everything, and that is power, and if anything, having that kind of power enables people to do things, good and bad.

Quote:
Here's the diagram of the needs theory. I think it's a little too rigid to describe everyone but I think it illustrates your point well.

I think diagrams like these are always based on most of the common needs observed among the majority of populace, and thus, as any norms, are rigid because they are a statistical average put to words.

But as with all kinds of preconceptions, rules and assumptions, they can never be anything more than just a vague references of sorts. I've read all sorts of philosophical and psychological nonsense that I can't fathom why someone would even say something like that, let alone make some kind of rule about it.

I think I could use an allegory from data compression in this regard, because many of these so called theories are a compressions of such a large sample, that it's simply impossible to fit all the required details and information to a complete all around rule for it to be comprehensible or of any use to anyone. So we get somewhere around there theories that can be really quite good, but ultimately they always leave so much out of the equation.

This is what I do, I'm an armchair philosopher and thinker of all kinds and with no credentials or tools whatsoever, other than my own little experience from life and my mind. So do take what I say with a grain of salt at all times, and most importantly, question what I say, because that is the only way for information to increase.
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