Is Avatar anti-Human as in it promotes hates against mankind as a whole? - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
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Old 04-24-2010, 10:07 PM
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Exclamation Is Avatar anti-Human as in it promotes hates against mankind as a whole?

I would say no way, but that sadly a lot of people have taken this to be the core message none the less.
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2010, 10:16 PM
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Well it promotes hate against the dark side of humanity. Greed, lack of caring about the environment and the people, selfishness,...
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2010, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
Well it promotes hate against the dark side of humanity. Greed, lack of caring about the environment and the people, selfishness,...
Right, let's cut down the BS. What you are truly referring too is Capitalism and Libertarianism which you and all Socialists/Marxists see as the reason for all the world ills.
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Old 04-24-2010, 10:54 PM
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It's against mercenaries. Hell, most of the main characters were humans, and we always rooted for them.

"It's anti-American" is what really got my goat. An American corporation happened to be in charge (what a surprise, America possesses many of the large corporations today). Are all corporations bad? Absolutely not. And guess what? Even Selfridge was vehemently against the bombing of the tree of souls and the whole war that ensued, and never really wanted any of the natives to die (deleted scenes reveal this). How some people can say his character was "one-dimensional", I don't have the slightest.

Quaritch is the bad guy. The mercenaries are the bad guys.

The RDA as a whole, working on Pandora, is not technically "bad" because most of the workers were just doing what they were told, and Selfridge was following orders. None of the workers were out to kill the natives. Then when the going went tough, Selfridge backed off. Not with the destruction Hometree, unfortunately, but afterward he regretted what he had done and wanted to back down. But Quaritch took control.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkMaister View Post
Right, let's cut down the BS. What you are truly referring too is Capitalism and Libertarianism which you and all Socialists/Marxists see as the reason for all the world ills.
I don't think he was trying to infer that.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 04-24-2010 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:45 AM
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I'd say no. Many humans, yes, are idiots like Quaritch or Selfridge or Wainfleet, but then there is Grace, Norm, Max, Trudy...
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
I'd say no. Many humans, yes, are idiots like Quaritch or Selfridge or Wainfleet, but then there is Grace, Norm, Max, Trudy...
...And Jake?
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post

I don't think he was trying to infer that.
He wasn't. PunkMaister likes making little posts/set-ups like this just to try and insult people. He/she takes any opportunity possible to call someone a Marxist.

I think PunkMaister's real name is Joseph McCarthy.
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Old 04-25-2010, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto View Post
He wasn't. PunkMaister likes making little posts/set-ups like this just to try and insult people. He/she takes any opportunity possible to call someone a Marxist.

I think PunkMaister's real name is Joseph McCarthy.
Er... McCarthy actually turned out to be in the right the entire time after archives were dug up, but that's another debate...

I'm pro-McCarthy.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:44 AM
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I am a Marxist. Just because Zenit doesn't agree with you PunkMaister, that isn't to say that he is a Marxist also. Further, there is nothing to say that Marxism in its own right is a bad thing.

There are aspects of capitalism, such as corporatism that people will hold hate against. Corporatism is portrayed as the RDA in film, therefore people will liken real world phenomena to the RDA. It is that phenomena that will recieve hate. Not humanity on a whole.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:50 AM
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Hmmm i see it as this, the rda represent the negative aspects of humanity, and the na'vi stand for all the respectable and good. When watching it tonight it made me realise, at one point in our existence, we must have been similar to them.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
It's against mercenaries. Hell, most of the main characters were humans, and we always rooted for them.

"It's anti-American" is what really got my goat. An American corporation happened to be in charge (what a surprise, America possesses many of the large corporations today). Are all corporations bad? Absolutely not. And guess what? Even Selfridge was vehemently against the bombing of the tree of souls and the whole war that ensued, and never really wanted any of the natives to die (deleted scenes reveal this). How some people can say his character was "one-dimensional", I don't have the slightest.

Quaritch is the bad guy. The mercenaries are the bad guys.

The RDA as a whole, working on Pandora, is not technically "bad" because most of the workers were just doing what they were told, and Selfridge was following orders. None of the workers were out to kill the natives. Then when the going went tough, Selfridge backed off. Not with the destruction Hometree, unfortunately, but afterward he regretted what he had done and wanted to back down. But Quaritch took control.

EDIT:


I don't think he was trying to infer that.
Hey let's not forget the RDA shareholders back on earth..they helped to create a hasty decision by a confused Selfridge. (Not to defend him though)

I can't help agreeing with ZenitYerkes though. I think Avatar forces us to take a long hard look at ourselves as a species and consider what actions/traits we need to have and what we don't.
Greed is one of them, envy is another..They exist despite any economical situation so capitalism/socialism shouldn't be emphasised..
I think Avatar shows humans what they should aspire to be. Not by completely copying the Na'vi but by learning how to care for each other and lead as much of a noble life as humanly possible.
The Na'vi make mistakes, look at Tsu'Tey and his envy of Jake. Cameron doesn't attack only the humans..He shows us what we should change.

Personally I don't think anyone has the right to tell us how to be and how to act. We need to take the initiative ourselves.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:29 AM
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The movie shows what can and does happen when individuals act upon greed and selfish personal gain, regardless of the consequences to the other beings around them. We are all guilty of doing this in one way or another in our own lives, the question is did/will we learn not too. Will we learn to think of how our actions will affect others, not just ourselves. I believe that there are great aspects and ideas to socialism AND capitalism, but both systems are run by men and men are flawed.

Let us all just try to become different in our own lives, to act not for our own selfish gain. People will see this, and I believe in time others will change as well. Oel ngati kameie my brothers and sisters
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2010, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
Er... McCarthy actually turned out to be in the right the entire time after archives were dug up, but that's another debate...

I'm pro-McCarthy.
If your refering to transcripts and decoded Soviet messages, most scholars consider that revitionist history.

All signs pointed to him being wrong. From the Wheeling speech forward he kept pulling numbers out of his a**. Some days his little piece of paper had 57 names, and other days 205. He was never able to prove, without reasonable doubt, that anyone was a Communist. Anyone that disagreed with, he simply pointed his finger at them and said "commie." People didn't try to stop him because they were really Communists, they were afraid of being insinuated and having their careers ruined. His whole witch hunt was just a ploy to stay in office. He was a nobody setting up to lose his seat, it was the perfect scheme to stay in office.

Just wondering, what's your stance on corporate personhood? Do you believe the RDA should be given the same Constitutional rights as human individuals?
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"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden

Last edited by Tsyal Makto; 04-25-2010 at 09:48 AM.
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2010, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto View Post
If your refering to transcripts and decoded Soviet messages, most scholars consider that revitionist history.
I dunno... if you've read the reports I have you'd start considering things. Plus, commies in the government isn't exactly a good thing, as you can see what's happening now in the U.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto View Post
Just wondering, what's your stance on corporate personhood? Do you believe the RDA should be given the same Constitutional rights as human individuals?
A corporation is a body controlled by shareholders; I don't believe it can be considered a person (I know what you mean). Everyone in the U.S. deserves their rights from the Constitution. But the Constitution dictates the basics on the rights of what the government can and cannot do. The rights of the people are given by God, which is what the founders taught (and is in the Constitution). If rights came from the state, we'd be totalitarian. Corporations are many times good. Sometimes bad...

But the RDA was largely a morally-bent example of a down-the-drain power-hungry corporate monster. The only corporation like the RDA that exists today is Monsanto.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I dunno... if you've read the reports I have you'd start considering things. Plus, commies in the government isn't exactly a good thing, as you can see what's happening now in the U.S.
The congress is not communist.
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