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Old 08-13-2010, 08:07 AM
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Default Speaking with animals using tsaheylu?

I was just wondering whether animals could "say" something to the Na'vi "through" tsaheylu. I mean, the Na'vi can tell an Ikran, a Direhorse, even a Thanathor where to go, what to do. And the animals understand it, no matter in what language the Na'vi speak (or think. yes, rather think ). So, can the Na'vi understand animals too? For example, I'm sure that Jake's Ikran wanted to tell him something like "Think! Fly!" or maybe something else... Is it possible that Jake understood? It would be great to hear your opinions.
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Old 08-14-2010, 07:26 AM
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I think it has to do with the person's understanding of a word that translates into what the ikran or whatever understands.

Like for example if the person bonding with the ikran's meaning of the word "fly" was "turn left" then that's what the ikran would do.

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Old 08-14-2010, 08:14 AM
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Dangit! I hit the wrong key and lost everything I just wrote! It was much better than this version!
When we speak, we are forming pictures of what we're saying in our head. We have learned to ignore that part of our brain since we learned the names of objects and how to voice our needs and actions with words.
When we want to walk we think 'walk' and our body does it. Our brain has a direct connection to our body and needs no external language to tell it what to do.
That is how tsaheylu with an animal works. It is a direct connection to another brain, no language barrier, merely pictures, emotions, direction.
Watch Jake in the battle scene, he doesn't need language, he is thinking what he wants to do and where to go and Toruk immediately knows what they are doing and where they are going because he is in Jake's head as much as Jake is in his.

Now, once you have been inside the head of a top predator, it is difficult to come out of that without it rubbing off on you a little. Both Jake and Neytiri have bonded with very efficient killers.... how much has rubbed off on them even a little bit?

(I started a commentary thread in the Neytiri topic talking about her experience on the Thanator.)

Okay before I get into the personal issue of bonding with a life mate... we'll just leave it right here.
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:41 PM
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I agree it's probably more understanding based... Jake could have thought 'fly' in English or Na'vi (or any other language he knew) and the ikran would have still understood the same as it's the meaning rather than the word.
they probably do learn words if around Na'vi enough (e.g. Seze recognising her name) but that's different to an actual conscious understanding of a language.
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Old 08-19-2010, 01:13 PM
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I think it is part of the difficulty and why Jake fell of the direhorse a lot to let this connection happen. A way of not thinking in words but in feelings. Oh this is a grerat analogy I just saw:
Basically it is about turning off the Ego, not controlling it with rational thinking. On Earth, some religions or philosophies have the goal to reach a state of not thinking but rather feeling. This can be done by practice, but it also can happen spontaneous in a situation of desperation. At a moment of great desparation once can also stop thinking rationally but be all emotion. That philosophy may very well be represented in Avatar. Either one manages to learn to think without words and finally be able to ride a direhorse, or one feels desperate because the Ikran is behaving crazy and one "just does it".

And yes, I think the band is mutual. I think part of why Jake "went native" may very well be, that he felt this feedback, that he was talked back by the natural world of Pandora. I also think, an animal would convey to the rider if it is time to do something, like turn or stop descent or such, if only to prepare the rider to hold on.
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animals, speaking, tsahaylu, tsaheylu

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