I brought this up in the Depression thread, which, as I've said, is a place for people who need help with their depression. As for now, we have offered two websites with ways to cope, I feel like we can move our bulk discussion to this thread for a more upbeat tone and a change of tempo on the positive effects.

Personally, the movie made me more open-minded in that I don't have to live in a society with serious flaws, because I (and as I've discovered, many of you in these forums) can do something to impact it and make it a better place for others and myself.

Tsyal Makto just offered interesting insight on a "Techno-Tribe" type of society, here's what you said: "That's what I think the future needs. Techno-tribes. A tribal societal structure, but one that can still advance scientifically. Where the kind of love one finds in a nuclear family isn't restricted to such a small group. I think many of the old villages in Italy are a good example of something like this." Care to go into detail?

Anyone else out there care to go into how their lives have changed, and anything they're doing that we can get involved in or help?

I always like positive threads.

I recently attended a presentation by a Buddhist Monk. When he was done telling his story, someone asked what he thought the cause of all suffering is. He said ignorance. I agree.

My depression came from ignoring of who I really am. My true identity, the dreamer in me, had long been hidden. I let it out and everything started improving. I much more honest with my self, much more consistent.

The whole experience has started a journey for me. I can't say where I'm going. I like to write. Maybe I'll do something there, but wherever it is, I'm happy. After all, its the journey, not the destination.

Interesting, I can probably say the same for myself. Another thing I noticed that the movie made me realize is that I'm an escapist and we all are to some extent. I definitely have worked on my procrastination and laziness since the movie came out, and it's really helped my life out. I feel like I've enjoyed my surroundings instead of being so absorbed in my own thoughts as well. The strangest part was the impulse immediately after I watched the movie to start reading self-improvement books (probably because I had a stack of 'em that I had procrastinated on reading...).

That's the classic answer. Maya. The question is practically a set-up for a Buddhist.

You could argue that that the cause of all suffering is attachment, I think.

So, so true. Still working on that one.

Hehe- I think it is actually more than 4 websites that have threads like the depression-one

For me, Avatar gave me the incentive to return to myself and to strive for something new. It helped me to put together pieces of a puzzle on how I see the world to a picture. Not the movie itself did that, but it started me on doing that. I was surprised at some findings. Like that my political views are indeed "anarchistic", that I am much more critical on civilization than I thought before and that for me emotions and intuition are actually very important, as well as dreaming. It kind of helped me to "snap out of it", talking about a life headed for partially denying these things. So it started me on a journey to discover "me" again. Another thing it helped me with is to strive for a philosophy of life or a spirituality - something I did not actively look for before (again here just bits and pieces before). So in a way, the movie gave me a kick in the behind to start forming a coherent image of myself and how I see myself and the world. That helped a lot, though I have to admit, I spent a load of time in the past year thinking, reading and philosophizing instead of working - I also talk like 10 times as much as before

Improving the world is a big task of course. I came to truely love the natural world and I turned from a total misantroph to someone who actually likes humans but not the path they have chosen for now. I do have some ideas on how it should be, a lot of criticism on how it is now. I truely believe there are ways to live sustainably and happily - by following the "hardwired" needs humans have. We are told that these are mere remnants of our wild prehistoric ancestors and that holds the connotation that it is a bad thing. We're told that the way we live now makes up for all the things we have lost and that most of the things we have lost are actually bad things (like a desire to hunt) - that a civilized person does not have the need for these things anymore and therefore should shed them to become better and sperarate himself from the lower animals. I think, that this is not giving the matter the proper respect. Working against our (ancestral) nature makes people unhappy. The signs are abundantly clear, that humans, even when living in civilization for 6.000 years, have not evolved into a homo civilisitas. Many things cannot "go away" in such a short time.

Humans are social beeings with a desire for cooperation not competition. They have evolved to live in small bands and tribes, cooperating for the groups survival and a good life. Humans love green things, natural things, nature itself. They love hunting and gathering and they love to find ways to adapt to a new environment or situation. How do we see this today? People form clubs and teams and facebook-friendship-groups or internet forums to replace the tribe, they are simply unhappy when having to compete and wish for cooperation, they show social dependence and care for each other if allowed to. Humans put green plants and pets into their homes and desire city parks as a replacement for the natural world surrounding them that was changed into a concrete jungle. If they get rich, they buy a house in the countryside, on vacations they fly to "natural paradises". Humans follow sports games - a modern representation of the hunt (people teming up to follow a target and then aim and shoot) - they gather food in supermarkets and collectibles like comic books or plastic stuff at conventions. Humans like new challenges - they get bored if there is a daily routine building up for too long. Then they get crazy and jump out of planes on parachutes or from bridges with rubber bands attached to the feet.

So what follows from all that? We have not evolved very far away from our 6.000 year old ancestors in respect of our needs and desires. As a result, humans will be much happier if allowed to have a way of life that allows these desires to be fulfilled than one that forces them away from them. Thats the reason for depression running rampant among civilized peoples.

We need to find a new way of life, that allows these things to be fulfilled. And IMO that cannot be an industrialized mass society. It cant be capitalism and it also cant be socialism as it was practiced in the USSR and others. It has to be a society made out of small groups, in which each person is respected and heard. Nations with rock solid borders and a forced common nationality are not helping, neither are large corporations or states. A representative majority democracy is only needed because of the large group size, and is not working out so well either. Cities and a destructiveness against nature are also no way for people to become happy.

So I guess I am interested in Tsyals idea on the techno tribes. I descibed a vision of the future once like this: The world has many small communities of people, each group having its own culture and microsociety. Most of them would be egalitarian and all of them would be self sufficient and connected to the land they live on (so no one can coerce them to give up resources or workforce to others in return for basic needs). People can reach all vital parts of their life by walking withing the village. Long distance travel would have to be solved though. Trade between these small communities could allow for comforts and possibly even some of these groups can work together on larger projects. I used to think that these could also include technological development (what Tsyal describes as techno-tibalism) but other groups could desire to focus more on art or spirituality - all groups would however really live with and from the land they are living on. If they are willing to mine for metals, they would do so on their own terms and they would take care that they will not loose their landbase in the process. If they dont, they would leave it. People could go to other communities and ask for acceptance by them if they desire a different way of life. Some kind of communication between all the tribes would have to be possible - something like an internet.

Now, recently I have some problems with that utopia. The major one is, that I dont think technology would last very long in that setting. People would just not be willing to mine metals or work in a factory if they dont have to. These days, you can lure them there by threatening them with job loss, poverty and taking away basic needs like food and water and shelter. If all people are equal in some was, there are no rich and poor - that threat would not work and people would not want to do this work. This IS why communism did not work out in the USSR, I believe. So a society that treats people the same, that allows people freedom and that even attaches people to their land would make technological and industrial development very unlikely.
The other problem is that of the "big man" - What happened in the past might happen again - one tribe decides to forge weapons from local metals and instead of gathering their own food might turn towards robbery if that pays off more - if it is worth the risk that is. This would most likely happen if the land is otherwise poor in resources for food. It would be less of a problem if the resources for such endeavors are all gone - you cant really fight large wars with bows and arrows and you cant maintain empires without fast transportation and communication and strong weaponry. But if technology exists in such a tribal world, it bears the same dangers as today - the danger that it will eventually be used to create slaves and masters. How could this be avoided?

I think, humans need to find a way to make this work. A way to live a social life that allows cooperation, a life with nature and surrounded by nature and a life that allows them for challenges and adventure. Civilization as we know it does a bad job replacing the desires by phony equivalents but that does not work out. So I am trying to think of a new way of living. I am striving for a new way personally - I am sure that this is a way that would allow me to have a good experience and a "better way to live" - I am not clear on how this could or would affect the world.

Well for me, Avatar has caused me to look deep inside myself and find out what I truly want. I was so moved by the way the Na'vi look after Pandora and Eywa, the way they treat each other and the beasts they hunt with respect, something about it all just felt right.

I've been taking much better care of my body since watching Avatar. I never realized it before but if you have a working body and all your limbs intact then you are, in my opinion a very lucky person. A healthier diet, regular exercise and nature's embrace make up large parts of my days now. Since before Avatar I had always had a strong interest in bushcraft and wilderness survival, some people spend all day worrying about losing their jobs and homes, not being able to eat or drink. Why pay for things that nature gives us all freely? Why worry about losing your home when you can go into a forest and make a new one in a couple of hours? My love of nature and my newly found desire to live in it has shown me that I want to live like the Na'vi, in a tribe where I can look after/be looked after by the community. I'm in the process of reading 'Healthy at 100' and one thing I've found out that sticks in my mind is that loneliness kills, which I can't say I'm surprised about to be honest, other people is what makes your life fun and love filled. I have been considering joining The Revolutionists because I'd love to live in a tribe, a close knit community where everyone is heard and cared about.

Improving the whole world is extremely difficult, there are people everywhere that have been brainwashed by society. When I voiced that I wanted to live in the wild, it was met with 'Yeah right and how will you buy food and where will you sleep, on the floor?' When I explain hunting and building shelters people laugh and insist you can't live that way. Well it seemed to work just fine for god knows how many thousands/millions of years! Unless people can be shown that you can live both a comfortable and green lifestyle, they won't take it. They consider themselves far more important than the planet and all it's species. Earth gives us everything we need to live, and all she asks in return is that we show her a bit of love and respect and can we do it? Most of us sadly cannot.

I have posted several times before about the changes Avatar has wrought on me, so this is not going to be a complete inventory.

I am getting much clearer about my purpose and how to manifest it. I was already coaching before the movie but it became clearer afterward just how we have screwed ourselves up. I can see a future like auroraglacialis describes where people live more naturally. Most of that change will come after I am gone. But I am a step in the path.

Right now I am working with a friend on a book about discovering and developing your life purpose. It will be the start of many ways of promoting that topic. Expect to hear more about that later.

Posted this in the PAD thread, and figured it would apply here as well. Just more thoughts about the world.

Well put ma tsmukan. I'll always consider Pandora my true home, where I was truly meant to be, and maybe someday, somehow... Anyway, though I'm learning to love my foster home of Earth, too.

It's tough for a free spirit that values the freedom of the wild and the freedom to live by one's own right, to live in a world that values conformity, materialism, and one's economic productivity and viability over all else. The problem is that the world today attempts to take 7 billion various shaped pegs, and fit them all into the same hole, have the same role in the world. To go to school, get a job, consume, and die quickly before they become too much of an economic burden. From a purely economic standpoint this system works, because everyone has the same potential for doing work if pushed hard enough by the system. Though, from an existential and spiritual standpoint, this is a horrible system. Why? Because everyone has different expectations from life, different dreams, different capabilities, and they all want to live in a way that maximizes their own personal potential to fulfill their dreams. However, the problem that the world has with this is that in some cases, those lifestyles would counter the economic bottom line of society (like people who want to live in the wild or go off the grid). Which is why modern society is often refered to as the only "real word," and we are taught to believe that life outside of it is a brutish hell (think "Lord of the Flies"). It's that societal push to conform, to instill the belief that as long as we sit down, shut up, and do as we're told, we can find freedom, fulfillment, and love. Though people like you, me, and many others here see this is a load of crap for people who think like we do.

If this is the case, you've got two options.
- Pop the blue pill, give in, and be a good little modern wage slave and consumer, not challenging the system to change, or trying to escape it.

or

- Fight like hell for whatever you feel is worth fighting for, in whatever way you feel like fighting for it. Whether it be within the modern world or without.

US-centric, but can apply to what the rest of the world is facing, too. I posted it once before in another thread months ago, but it seems like a good time to post it again.

We Will Have To Fight

I think the Fight Club quote in my sig describes it pretty well, too.

Well, primitive people/the Na'vi did lead pretty risky lives. Climbing trees, running, chasing, being chased, riding horses, cliff diving, etc. Indeed sometimes for sport, as well. I'm sure some people ended up getting bumped and bruised along the way, indeed it would be interesting to see how they would deal with it. I'm sure that they were probably more liberal in terms of living dangerously than modern people are, because there was less at risk. If someone did something back then they didn't have the ability to destroy thousands of dollars of public infrastructure or private property in the process. Usually one would either hurt themselves, or if they did damage anything, it could easily be dealt with. With that said I still think that the modern world underestimates people's common sense, and ability to minimize risk to others/property with their actions. Used properly something like the Manta Ray would be perfectly safe. To ban it outright is overkill. All tht is doing is letting sue-happy lawyers push society further into nanny-stateism.


Interesting, and IMO one of the reasons why people need to fight like hell for net neutrality. If something as powerful as the internet allows everyday people to spy on each other this way, I shudder to think about what would happen if a few mega-corporations or the government ended up taking control if it. The internet is basically the last weapon common people have against the ruling class. Much of everything else is controlled by only a few hands (in the US, there are only 6 major news networks left in the mainstream, sounds trustworthy to me).

YouTube - The Henry Rollins Show - America Is Under Attack

Yeah, it's a pretty complex issue fit for a new thread. Too much to discuss here.

As for what Avatar has given me, "Dreamer's Manifesto" is my best attempt at describing a gift that truly is beyond words. Check the sig.

This reminds me, anyone here seen "Survivorman" on the Discovery Channel? TS, I think you would thoroughly enjoy it, the man's knowledge of foods and ways to shelter yourself in the wild is absurd. Not only that, but how to keep foot fungus and other ailments away when your in any condition.

That's exciting, I hope to write a book someday, can't let writing skills go to waste. And I also know that hope isn't a strategy...gotta start somewhere!!

You ever heard of the book Crime and Punishment, TM? If you haven't read it, you would thoroughly enjoy it...it's basically about an incredibly intelligent man named Raskolnikov that's a few years older than us and lives in poverty. He had to drop out of college b/c of this, and the extra time spent in crappy surroundings basically makes him feverish and sick. However, he's driven to the point of murder just to prove to himself that he's as supreme as someone like Napoleon who can kill millions and not feel any remorse. Although the book is quite lengthy, it begs the question, "Are we just a product of our respective environments?"

The only thing is that I feel you should acknowledge Earth as your true home, TM. Although some of us might consider the society we were born into a ****hole, I just have to ask, isn't it better to have been born into our society than to not have been born at all? We wouldn't be able to experience anything or even talk about how we could improve if we weren't alive. My opinion is that the worst part of a "perfect" society is that there's no room for improvement!

You'll have your eternity in Pandora or whatever your paradise is soon enough, why not enjoy the time on Earth and leave your impact while you can?

*adds another one to the book list*

Interesting you should mention that a perfect society is bad because it lacks room for improvement. It turns out that some scientists hypothesize that uncontacted advanced alien species will end up killing themselves off, because a lack of purpose would lead to behavior hedonistic enough to destroy themselves.

Even 1,000 alien invasions would be better than being all alone in the universe

And considering Pandora my true home does make me appreciate life here. I mean, when I end up there, I'd want to have some stories to tell and some knowledge to share, right? It's kinda hard to explain, but it really is a motivator. I wish I could explain it more but my minds a jumble with other things right now. Maybe Fkeu'itan or caveman has a better explanation. But it works.

That's interesting, I've also heard that. A little off topic but there are also other hypotheses that alien societies could've advanced to the point of a "brain-world" where all life is either in one mass on the planet, or in a biological super-computer that contains all consciousness. And you thought modern society was bad, HAHA, how about living life through the eyes of a single computer that houses your consciousness.

I understand what you're saying...I'm just trying to get some of you guys over the last hump that Pandora was not a figment of your imagination, it was a figment of someone else's. Search your feelings (Luke), you know paradise can be even better, why cripple yourself with thoughts of what you think heaven is, when in reality I GUARANTEE it's even better. (LOL, lame-ass Star Wars joke)

Why not surprise yourself when you die, instead of longing for what you think heaven could be? HAHAHAHA, a little oversimplified, my apologies.

Avatar was a life-changer, but think deep down, you know it's bad to hang on to it as a crutch.

Ok then what is heaven to you? You've telling me you never contemplated what paradise would be to you?

And why not consider Pandora a heaven? I'm sure we're not the only ones in the world. The City of God is heaven to millions of Christians, and that came from whoever wrote Revelations. Paradise isn't about who's mind it comes from, it's about feeling it in your heart, whatever it might be.

I think you're underestimating just how much progress this forum has made since we all first saw Avatar. PAD in the first few months was the crutch, thinking about Pandora as paradise, or for self improvement, or philosophy is inspiration. There's quite a difference. I think your standards for what is and is not acceptable for inspiration, and the line between inspiration and crutch, might be a little too strict, and the line too thin. No need to try and "fix" what isn't broken.

I don't know, I'm more concerned with living than dying right now, 70-odd years of living is not comparable to an eternity of heaven, so I'm not going to let thoughts of heaven cripple me. I'm certainly not underestimating the progress this forum has made since we saw Avatar, in fact I've definitely applauded it a few times...if Pandora is your heaven, so be it, but I know some of you out there have to go back to Avatar over and over again, this is what I'm talking about. USING AVATAR AS A CRUTCH IS BAD. USING A CRUTCH IN GENERAL IS BAD. If Pandora is your inspiration, great, if something else is your inspiration, great, but don't let the "inspiration" take control.

Now do you get what I'm saying TM? Fine if you want to use Pandora as your motivation, we've all grown and all seen each other grow first hand from Avatar, it's just that too much of a good thing is bad. Alright? I think most of you guys are pretty level-headed and can wrap your head around that one.

Now let's drop this argument, because I'm really not even talking directly about you TM, it doesn't sound like your doing what I'm talking about, looks like we're all headed in the right direction.

Time to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya"

Oh boy, you changed your post up on me

I've absolutely contemplated what heaven is for me, once again, there's plenty of time for that when I'm there. My line is drawn at the point of Pandora being a source of inspiration, not that Pandora is where I'll go when I die. If it's not the same for everyone else, that's fine, just trying to show why the latter can be bad.