Mistakes Humanity made that the Na'vi avoided (a society comprison) - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:19 PM
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Default Mistakes Humanity made that the Na'vi avoided (a society comprison)

I've been thinking about this for a long time ever since I got the activist survival guide With all the remarkes on the Na'vi socity and how terrible the human socity is in the future.

I'm creating a Monolog for my acting class and I need some opinons on what to include about this subjuct. Try to include pros and cons about human and Na'vi socities. I don't want just negitives on humans because I would probly get some nasty remarks if everything was saying Humans suck.
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:40 PM
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Hey, this is a great idea for a thread.


I'll think of more, but for now, Humans tried to control nature and bend it to their will, whereas the Na'vi work with it (quite literally, in some cases) to stay alive and gather food.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:02 PM
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Industrialization and the adoption of agriculture. Research has come out showing that hunter-gatherers actually had more free time than their agrarian counterparts. You also avoid deep class divisions staying hunter-gatherer. Also where did we evolutionarily lose our tail? I mean come on, tails are cool.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:18 PM
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I am confused as to what you mean by a mistake or whether you are just simply comparing humanity with the Navi. To be honest, what constitutes a mistake varies from person to person. Some people can look outside and see skyscrapers. Some would call that a mistake, others would call it an achievement.

Really it would be improper to call it mistakes; we just simply see the world through a different lens than them. We perceive the cosmos differently.


Any discussion comparing two cultures has to take into account their values. The spectrum of beings that we call Humanity is a varied sort so I have to limit it to Western culture. In other words a militia.

Now when most of us think of western civilization, we tend think of mass capitalism, freedom, human rights, but these are rather recent developments. They are not what defines the West. They are not what separates us from other societies.

Every society has its values. In particular there are certain qualities that the "ideal" member is supposed to strive for. Western civilization has seven virtues.

the four Greco/Roman Virtues:
Fortitude (Courage) - never giving up.
Justice - being fair and equitable with others.
Prudence - care of and moderation with money
Temperance - moderation of needed things and abstinence from things which are not needed.

With the three Judeo-Christian virtues
Faith - belief in the right things. (i.e. there are universal morals)
Hope - taking a positive future view, that good will prevail.
Charity - concern for, and active helping of, others

These qualities are very prevalent even today.


From watching Avatar, here is my impression of what the Navi virtues are.

The Navi Virtues:
Fortitude (courage) - never giving up. "You have a strong heart no fear."
Loyalty (to the people) - devotion. Think of Tsu'tey as a role model
Harmony - living in peace together and with nature "A network of energy."


Basic Cosmology:
The West: science: The universe is governed by certain fundamental laws. The universe is not chaos.

The Navi: Life lives in constant balance. Eywa oversees that this balance is maintained.


Warfare:
The West: Citizen soldiers: Generally Western civilizations did not have large professional standing armies. Most soldiers were peasants, farmers, and tradesmen billeted into service.

The Navi: Hunters: The Navi in a sense has professional soldiers in the sense that a large majority of individuals are trained from a young age. They hunt and provide defense in the event of an attack. That is their profession.


I could keep going on about the differences but my point is to show that when you have two different groups a mistake in 1 group's view may be perfectly fine in another. For example, the Aztecs before a great battle would sacrifice a great general. In our view this is a mistake in the sense that they are killing off their most talented but in their view, it was perfectly legitimate. I've seen some people on AF frown upon the concept of Iknimaya. To them it seemed as if they were unnecessarily putting people in danger. It shows how different we think. Life is very important to us. Its something that we in the West do all we can to preserve. To the Navi, it does not matter as it is a test of bravery.

Within individuals, the variety becomes so much greater. Think of what virtues would be expected of an Academic. Grace said herself that she didn't believe in fairy tales. She was logical. Look at what is expected if you are serving in the military. Colonel Miles Quaritch is perhaps what every Marine commander wants to be (atrocities and insanity aside).

If you are looking for pros and cons, you only capture only one viewpoint of the world. I would suggest you do it from two subjective points of view, from the perspective of your average human living in 2154 and the perspective of your average Navi.

Last edited by Banefull; 01-09-2011 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Banefull View Post
I am confused as to what you mean by a mistake or whether you are just simply comparing humanity with the Navi. To be honest, what constitutes a mistake varies from person to person. Some people can look outside and see skyscrapers. Some would call that a mistake, others would call it an achievement.

I just wrote the title that way to get the users' attetion and interset to read the thread. I do know the perspectives of human and Na'vi, I just want to include the Na'vi so we can use some of their Ideas in our socity. I will share my opinons when I have the time.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:56 PM
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Well, I'd say the most obvious mistake of humanity was it's lack of even an iota of harmony with the natural world. There's 20 billion people, all the forests have been cut down, the air is desperately polluted (to the point of choking off the sun), and clean water has become more scarce than ever. No matter what your civilization's values might be, to overpopulate, overfish, overfarm, overpollute, and deforest all of your natural resources away is just plain stupid, at least from a Darwinian and economic standpoint, not even counting the existential and spiritual value that nature holds.

Second, I'd say another problem is that society had become rather lustful and hedonic. If you notice some of the Earth scenes, you see a lot of holo-signs like "Simusex" and "Stimufast," as well as lots of pictures of sexually-explicit women. I'd venture to say that true love has become as rare as clean water in future Earth. It seems in the future that people are only looking for a good time, which could explain the ungodly high population. I'd also venture to say that domestic abuse like in the bar scene is rather common.

Third, I'd say is war, nuclear war to be specific. According to the Survival Guide, in the future, somebody with an itchy trigger finger finally decided to use the bomb in war, and since nuclear resource war and nuclear terrorism has become commonplace.

Fourth, corporate-fascism/corporatism. It's pretty obvious that the RDA is the defacto ruler of the world.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:40 PM
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Humans destroyed everything in their path rather than adapt.
They grew without control and started causing extinctions and destroying the environment as they ran out of space and resources.
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowhawk1993 View Post
I've been thinking about this for a long time ever since I got the activist survival guide With all the remarkes on the Na'vi socity and how terrible the human socity is in the future.

I'm creating a Monolog for my acting class and I need some opinons on what to include about this subjuct. Try to include pros and cons about human and Na'vi socities. I don't want just negitives on humans because I would probly get some nasty remarks if everything was saying Humans suck.
...WHICH human societies? There is no monoculture that spans the entire planet. Never has been, and I can't see that there ever will be.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:28 AM
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...WHICH human societies? There is no monoculture that spans the entire planet. Never has been, and I can't see that there ever will be.
With the speed and virility that western civilization is spreading, I can see it as becoming a global monoculture. It's got North America, Europe, Asia, and is slowly taking over Africa, South America, and India.
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"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto View Post
With the speed and virility that western civilization is spreading, I can see it as becoming a global monoculture. It's got North America, Europe, Asia, and is slowly taking over Africa, South America, and India.

Thats the big mistake that humanity is making that made me conserened and depressed about human society. I just sure hope that Human Society doesn't become like the one in 2154. If we can adapt some of the Na'vi values in, I'm sure society can be saved.
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Old 01-10-2011, 02:19 AM
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It's kind of hard to say. There was a time when humanity would have looked pretty much like the Na'vi. Would we have been better off if we'd just stayed that way? Another big question is: are the Na'vi progressing or are they locked in stasis? Are they advancing technologically as humans did? Without knowing the answers you can't really point and say: "here's where humans went wrong compared to the Na'vi."
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:53 AM
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With the speed and virility that western civilization is spreading, I can see it as becoming a global monoculture. It's got North America, Europe, Asia, and is slowly taking over Africa, South America, and India.
*takes a deep breath and lets it out slowly*

My country, although part of the related cultures of 'the West' is NOT the same as the US. Equally, it is not the same as China. Equally, Japan's culture is nothing like Italy's. Having the same technology is not the same as having the same culture. I mean, we don't even have the same form of governments, let alone the same types of food (I'm going to hazard a guess here that the average Australian uses the wok way more than the average Canadian) or way people interact with each other in the street. Or holidays. Or religion. Or language.

So, no, there is no 'western monoculture'. At all. Having related cultures is not the same thing as having the same one.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:37 AM
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I haven't read yet the Activist Survival Guide, but I can say we all made the world what we wanted it to be, it is nobody's fault than ours. It all started with the first discoveries of mankind, then we thought the discoveries belong to us which is totally NOT.

Humanity has this gift but doesn't try to "evolve" it. Reason. Why do you think there is a conflict between the Sky People and the Na'Vi ? We imagine everyday that an extraterrestrial species could be more or less evolved than us, and we come against a less advanced species but more rational like the Na'Vi. Then come at war with them because we want their resource which makes matter flow without any kind of pollution.

"When you sit on something people wants, that's when you become their enemy".
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:08 AM
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*takes a deep breath and lets it out slowly*

My country, although part of the related cultures of 'the West' is NOT the same as the US. Equally, it is not the same as China. Equally, Japan's culture is nothing like Italy's. Having the same technology is not the same as having the same culture. I mean, we don't even have the same form of governments, let alone the same types of food (I'm going to hazard a guess here that the average Australian uses the wok way more than the average Canadian) or way people interact with each other in the street. Or holidays. Or religion. Or language.

So, no, there is no 'western monoculture'. At all. Having related cultures is not the same thing as having the same one.
I guess I could have phrased that one a bit better. Of course each region has it's own cultural dialects, but each of these are still built on a foundation of western socioeconomic values - consumerism, pop-culture, etc., controlled by a handful of mega-corporations. I guess one could call it momocultural-pluralism. You can get your Big Mac with a beer in Germany, or special Ghuci designs in Japan. The point is that it is still Macdonalds, it is still Ghuci, and it is still many others that continue to "globalize" once truly, 100% unique and original cultures.

Yeah, I'm feeling cynical tonight.
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto View Post
I guess I could have phrased that one a bit better. Of course each region has it's own cultural dialects, but each of these are still built on a foundation of western socioeconomic values - consumerism, pop-culture, etc., controlled by a handful of mega-corporations. I guess one could call it momocultural-pluralism. You can get your Big Mac with a beer in Germany, or special Ghuci designs in Japan. The point is that it is still Macdonalds, it is still Ghuci, and it is still many others that continue to "globalize" once truly, 100% unique and original cultures.

Yeah, I'm feeling cynical tonight.

Haters gonna hate.
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