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Old 03-14-2010, 03:52 PM
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Default FREEDOM - Merely an Illusion ? A question risen by Avatar

One of my old threads I opened at the "old" forum some time ago , only read if you are a little philosopher like I am , or if you find the time to read a huge text

And please overlook those little grammar/vocab mistakes of mine , I wrote this in an excessive 'thinking' rush with thoughts just pouring through my fingers onto the screen


Freedom

We all know it , or at least believe to know it , or even to "feel" it .
In order to analyze the term freedom we have to take a step back to see the picture in a better way , and ask ourselves what does freedom mean to me ?

Does it mean paying taxes , building a house , having a wonderful family in a seemingly wonderful world , planting a tree in your garden at the birth of your first son or daughter ?

Does it mean living the ideals your so called society offers you , or to strive for the aims that are being set upon your shoulders ?

Does it mean consuming the "goods" which our "civilization" offers us ?

Well if you consider that as freedom , you are definately being a "free" man and I bet alot of people are living up to those ideals and try to fulfill the "tasks" they have let burdened upon them and try to be someone they just aren't .

"I realized that I had the game wrong , it was about to find out what I already was , not to try to become someone I am not"

This sentence made me think alot about how we work in these days , how our system works , today we are uncountable individuals , but at the same time we are nothing but numbers to the society we have sworn allegiance to , which we became addicted to , and which we are about to succumb to .

So what if we ask ourselves the question again , are we free , are we all free individuals able to self determinate our fate , our life ?

This question can be answered with a quotation of a philosopher named Goethe :

“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”

Todays so called human civil society makes you believe that you are free , it tries to play with your mind and trick you , it gives you the illusion of self-determination , but at the same time you step into the game , you become the victim of it .
Our society tries to enforce certain roles upon us which we are all born into , and I bet everyone has made this experience already , that if you challenge or call the system that enslaves you to it's selfdestructive ways into question , you are immediately about to feel the consequences , because those who have thought of this system perfected it with a simple trick , they manipulate you through the masses of people , the people you love and the people you value , they have the ultmate method to force you back into the system if you dare to question it or to leave it , namely your habit .

Throughout your life you are being told what is wrong and what is right , this doesn't happen through any person , it happens through your family which has been manipulated just like their families and their anscestors before them , so what will happen if those people , the people who you love and admire turn their backs against you ?
Exactly , you will question your own decision and overthink trying to go your own way .
The system simply keeps people bound to it by group forcement , because if you dare to leave the system you will be nothing but a savage to those who once claimed that they love you , that they respect you for what you are and what you are living for , and specially , the way you wan't to live your life .
BUT , this is exactly the moment the system unmasks itself and it's evil ways , it's own hypocracy , his illusions , it doesn't want you to be free , it wants you to be a number , a slave in modern society , they want you to keep the machine running which would otherwise start decaying itself and would let the lying scaffold collapse under it's own weight and bury those under it who profit through it .

So let me ask you the question once more , what does freedom mean to YOU ?

Does freedom mean following the rules I listed up above , or does it mean the same thing to you as it means to me ?

Would you rather live an excessive lifestyle , with all the goods this so called society has to offer you , to "live your life to the fullest" , to succumb to materialism and the false ideals and illusions you are offered .

You better choose wizely , because if you chose once you will never be able to go back , because every quantum of freedom and humaneness will be sucked out of your flesh , out of your blood and out of your mind and in the end , there will only be an enormous void in your life , in your heart and your soul ,in the shell you will become , and once you reach the age of a dying old man , you will sit in your wheelchair or already lying in your deathbed and you will ask yourself one particular set of question "Was it worth it ?" , "Was it worth selling my soul to the demons that hunted me and exploited me and others throughout my life?" , "Have I maybe chosen the wrong path to walk ?"

Does freedom mean following the rules I listed up above , or does it mean the same thing to you as it means to me ?

Would you try to be a free man walking the surface of our wonderful blue planet , would you destroy the chains , the ties around your wrists and breath real freedom , would you find yourself a place that fills your heart with love , where you will find your people and live without fear when you run through an open field and feel the earth beneath your feet , will you stand on top of your peoples own "life tree" , close your eyes , breath in and just know that this is the place where you belong to , and really feel that your heart is connected to it and you would finally have found something that is worth living and even if it has to be to die for ?

The best advice I can give out after thinking alot about this topic is , don't be blind , don't be fooled by the devil humanity has summoned to our world , don't let yourself be guarded through your life by others , use your own mind , do whatever you feel is right and don't let yourself be stopped by those who rather live in their dreamworld , go out and find your own Pandora !

You may not be free as long as you live in the hypocrit and lying world we were born into ,but freedom still isn't an illusion , it exists out there , you just have to have the curage to take it ,for yourself , and for your people.
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Old 03-14-2010, 08:28 PM
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Although I do not do much in the way of philosophy, some proposed questions surely do reck my brain just thinking about them.
Your post above is very interesting to read. Was my time on earth worth it? A very interesting question that can only be answered at the end of your life. I would like to think I will do something good with my life as I am sure other people do too.
But - What is Freedom?
There are many "Human Rights" supposably giving us freedom. "Freedom of speech" "Freedom of an Education" Water, food, education, being able to speak our minds. These things, whilst giving us the right to, are in the same way controlling us. Why should a bit of paper tell us we can speak etc? Should we not have the right to do that without being told so? No matter how far we go we will always be under some form of system, so I am a firm believer on living to the full no matter what

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Old 03-14-2010, 11:40 PM
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You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your ****ing khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world. -Fight Club

I don't think we are truly free, the modern system of currency makes everyone wanting to be a part of the system a slave to the system.

- 9-5, get back home, turn on TV get your daily brainwashing by the mass media, drink a beer, go to bed. Wake up, repeat and rinse.

I mean honestly... I hope I don't ever end up like that. I want to save up some money, working from home. Then move to a beautiful country and have fun in the nature there.

My 2 cents. The only TRUE free person is the homeless guy on the street, for he has nothing to lose.
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferret View Post
You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your ****ing khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world. -Fight Club

I don't think we are truly free, the modern system of currency makes everyone wanting to be a part of the system a slave to the system.

- 9-5, get back home, turn on TV get your daily brainwashing by the mass media, drink a beer, go to bed. Wake up, repeat and rinse.

I mean honestly... I hope I don't ever end up like that. I want to save up some money, working from home. Then move to a beautiful country and have fun in the nature there.

My 2 cents. The only TRUE free person is the homeless guy on the street, for he has nothing to lose.
I agree , I think freedom has become a rare good you have to pay a high price for in order to be really free in the so called modern society , as you said , I'll get me some cash and move away from here , I'll be a happier person with only a little money but living with people who are likeminded as I am and live a better life than a brainless consume robot could do in 100 lifes , even if people hate you for it , actually they hate you for breaking the bond that keeps you chained to the machinery because they aren't able to , but it's actually easier than you think , you just have to say "No , thank you" and leave , because IMO you can never be free in any state of the western society , or in the modern society of mankind generally , you have to look out for your own "Pandora"/"Paradise" , or however you want to call it.
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:42 PM
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There is no freedom.
Freedom is an excuse for crime used by society.
You say one wrong thing, you get arrested.
Freedom of speech does not exist.
Freedom of opinion does not exist.
International freedom does not exist.

You are not welcome in other countries, which takes away freedom.

You can NOT go where you want.

FREEDOM DOES NOT EXIST.
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:26 PM
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FREEDOM EXISTS WHERE THE SYSTEM IS DEFIED. NOT , however by anarchy. Thats bad too
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:42 PM
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i don´t think that real freedom is possible

human will always be jealous about things that another one owns..... this will always lead to violence!

if we could free our selfs from that there would be a chance for real freedom, but until that...
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:46 PM
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Yeh...
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:49 PM
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The meaning of Anarchy has been perverted and linked with a bad sense throughout human history by those who want to keep their power , Anarchy is only the absence of a government that controls it's people , so there would be nobody who could tell you how you should live or manipulate you to live like those people see fit .

So Anarchy is actually nothing but freedom for everyone , but has been demonized to make people believe it's bad so people keep believing that the form of the state of the individual ruler is the only choice , but it is not .
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:15 PM
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Thing is, as said above, it is hard for us to accept the paradigm that we can live in anarchy without necessarily having conflict- that's exactly what the government wants us to think so they can continue their rule over us..
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:08 PM
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We think we have control, but all we really have is an illusion of control.
Its the same with freedom.

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Old 03-18-2010, 04:56 PM
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First post in the ToS and I'm coming up with philosophy.

See, you have to make a difference between the ideal and the real freedom.

Ideal: individuals doing whatever they want with no coercion or limitation.
Reality: This ideal freedom is limited by:
  • The physique: if you don't have wings, for example, you won't be able to fly.
  • The consequences of your previous actions: you are free to amputate your leg, but don't expect to run in the future.
These two are impossible to change; however, there is a third limitation: society.

Society determines, first of all, whom you depend on (dependence limitations), whom you have to obey (subordination limitations) and your traditions, fashions, culture and routine (consensus limitations). If we had to do a graphic with there, social limitations would be about the 90% of things that pull you back when doing your stuff.

Why? If you're a teen and try to stay out by 3AM in the morning your momma will tell you "Do it and I'll take your cell". So instead of doing what you desire you obey momma (subordination limitation). Or you want to stay on your dream place for the rest of your life, but have to go back to work and earn your money (dependence limitation). And how about if you like going naked everywhere, but live on an Arab country (consensus limitation)?

However, I believe that although it's a hard choice, we have always the chance and freedom of getting out our social community whenever we want if we consider it "inappropriate" and "oppressive", like the hippies did in the 60s.

But as said, it's a hard choice because you won't leave all that "comfort" and "progress" for just freedom, won't ya?
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
But as said, it's a hard choice because you won't leave all that "comfort" and "progress" for just freedom, won't ya?

I would , freedom is above anything for me , and I guess one day I'll just pay the price to be free , and I know it's the right choice , I wouldn't want to stay in society being another consuming robot , that's just not life to me , even if people 'hate' me for it , I'd still choose freedom over comfort .

And before I forget it , welcome to the forum .
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:21 PM
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Freedom is not spending money to amass gadgets, etc. That leads to slavery. I believe that freedom means choosing the good ie. loving and respecting others, sharing, giving, taking one day at a time and enjoying life, our planet, etc. That to me is what freedom truly is. It is also the freedom to believe or not believe. It is the ability to think freely too. Freedom isn't materialism, etc. It is love.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel77 View Post
Freedom is not spending money to amass gadgets, etc. That leads to slavery. I believe that freedom means choosing the good ie. loving and respecting others, sharing, giving, taking one day at a time and enjoying life, our planet, etc. That to me is what freedom truly is. It is also the freedom to believe or not believe. It is the ability to think freely too. Freedom isn't materialism, etc. It is love.
Well said
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