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Old 12-30-2014, 11:09 PM
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Default Screenrush Article "Why has Avatar been Forgotten"

Why

Okay, so clearly this doesn't apply to us in terms of forgetting, but the article brings up some good points.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Cameron really did not expect Avatar to take off like it did. Remember back to '09, was there really that much Avatar merchandise? Was there really that concrete a marketing push? Not really. It came out and then it just...kept going.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-31-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyvaris View Post
Thoughts?
Disappointment, had I not expected this.

Avatar is many things, but one of the most important things is a commentary on the brutally, almost unbelievably wrong and ugly things going on in the tropics (especially the Amazon basin) right now.

And I would be remiss if I did not point out that this is a separate problem (or maybe a sub-problem) of the dystopia shown in the beginning of the extended cut. We are racing towards that world, and it has not slowed down. Cameron's made some enemies, but he's not really a bad guy, and he wanted to show people how bad things could get and what kinds of things we have already lost (Pandora being the idealized unspoilt wilderness-planet with a thriving ecology) so much of.

Personally, Avatar reminded me of my own identity, and even improved my health; within a year of seeing the movie I lost about 80 pounds, and my diet now features reduced meat consumption, vastly reduced processed foods consumption, and greatly increased consumption of organically-grown produce.

So I'm disappointed that so few people really "got it", but I'm not surprised.
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Old 01-04-2015, 01:30 PM
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I have often wondered this myself: why a movie that broke all kinds of records has managed to fade from the public consciousness so much. I have no new theory to offer however, except that maybe all the more casual fans who enjoyed the movie (not the super ones like us) are less vocal than the snobs and Negative Nancies on pretty much every site not named Tree of Souls, Avatar Forums, or Learn Na'vi.

What I think is more important than Avatar simply being visible as a movie is whether or not its word of warning is being heeded. In the past five years I've tried to keep abreast of environmental news and its connections to politics. Climate change and inaction on the issue concern me greatly. While some gains may have been made recently, I still see a lot of trouble. I was too idealistic to even hope that a single work of fiction could bring about change more rapidly.

Perhaps if Avatar needs to be more visible again, then it should fall on the devotees like us to make it happen while James Cameron et al do whatever they need to do. What I would like to see is groups of people meeting for volunteer work like at the last meet-up. Habitat restorations, beach clean-ups, hiking trail maintenance jobs...even non-environmental tasks at places like food banks, which I have enjoyed being a part of. And then, when those people are asked what has impelled them to lend a hand, they name the movie that brought them together.
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:19 AM
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Folks, you are being a bit harsh on yourselves. No movie has had the kind of staying power you are looking for, with the possible exception of the first Star Wars. The effects that Avatar had on the population in its first six months were off the charts for life changing impact. I can't think of another movie that made that big a difference. The number of media channels competing for attention today is many orders of magnitude later than what existed in 1977. Avatar has already gone down in history for what it did. Now keep the dream alive.
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Old 01-05-2015, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sempu View Post
Folks, you are being a bit harsh on yourselves. No movie has had the kind of staying power you are looking for, with the possible exception of the first Star Wars. The effects that Avatar had on the population in its first six months were off the charts for life changing impact. I can't think of another movie that made that big a difference. The number of media channels competing for attention today is many orders of magnitude later than what existed in 1977. Avatar has already gone down in history for what it did. Now keep the dream alive.
You're missing the point, actually.

Aliens, Predator, Jurassic Park, Terminator, Godzilla, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and others have all had more staying power and evolved into broader things. Some of these also started as another type of media, but they all had a large impact and quickly expanded to occupy a myriad of other types of media.

This has nothing to do with "keeping the dream alive"; the continued existence of this website (and others like it) and the activity therein does that by itself. This is strictly a question of why things died down so quickly compared to similar movies.

The answer could simply be that lightstorm did not anticipate our formation and endurance, and so did not originally plan for any additional material; when they realized what they had done, JC decided to produce more movies, but since that was not "in the cards" from the start, there's been a lag between Avatar's release and additional movies or books.

Some of us suspect that this lull in activity will not last for long, and are making plans to accommodate anticipated growth...
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Old 01-05-2015, 10:26 PM
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I think it's just part of the day of age. There's so many movies being put out, there's no real stopping and looking at the movies, even with one as big as "Avatar". Good movies never really fade. A movie like "The Dark Crystal" has been out of the spot light for years, but there's still a strong following it because it's a great movie made with love. Tree of Souls proves that "Avatar" is prove that "Avatar" is still going strong.
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Old 01-08-2015, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sempu View Post
Folks, you are being a bit harsh on yourselves. No movie has had the kind of staying power you are looking for, with the possible exception of the first Star Wars. The effects that Avatar had on the population in its first six months were off the charts for life changing impact. I can't think of another movie that made that big a difference. The number of media channels competing for attention today is many orders of magnitude later than what existed in 1977. Avatar has already gone down in history for what it did. Now keep the dream alive.
Contariwise, if Cameron put out Avatar films at the rate Lucas did, Avatar 3 would be coming out at the end of this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbeam View Post
I think it's just part of the day of age. There's so many movies being put out, there's no real stopping and looking at the movies, even with one as big as "Avatar". Good movies never really fade. A movie like "The Dark Crystal" has been out of the spot light for years, but there's still a strong following it because it's a great movie made with love. Tree of Souls proves that "Avatar" is prove that "Avatar" is still going strong.
Given the size of the audience Avatar got, ToS (and even AF) is tiny, and ToS is almost dead.
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
Given the size of the audience Avatar got, ToS (and even AF) is tiny, and ToS is almost dead.
ToS will NEVER die!!!
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Old 01-09-2015, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
You're missing the point, actually.

Aliens, Predator, Jurassic Park, Terminator, Godzilla, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and others have all had more staying power and evolved into broader things. Some of these also started as another type of media, but they all had a large impact and quickly expanded to occupy a myriad of other types of media.
Ah, thanks, I was not paying enough attention before.

Can you clarify what you mean by "other types of media"? If you're saying that Avatar didn't spawn a video game and array of Jake & Neytiri action figures/playing cards/cupcakes, I could argue that Avatar is less susceptible to being commercialized along those lines. It may also be a deliberate strategy by Cameron to prevent the environmental message (which those other movies did not have) from being diluted by crass product lines. He could afford to do that.

I think it is too early to compare staying power, if that's measured in terms of mentions in the popular culture, although I do see your point. Those movies invented something memorable and tightly defined in each case, and Avatar was more high concept. I don't mind; the Toilet Duck may get more attention for its inventor than Andrew Wiles got for proving Fermat's a Last Theorem, but I know which one I'd rather be.
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Old 01-10-2015, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sempu View Post
Ah, thanks, I was not paying enough attention before.

Can you clarify what you mean by "other types of media"? If you're saying that Avatar didn't spawn a video game and array of Jake & Neytiri action figures/playing cards/cupcakes, I could argue that Avatar is less susceptible to being commercialized along those lines. It may also be a deliberate strategy by Cameron to prevent the environmental message (which those other movies did not have) from being diluted by crass product lines. He could afford to do that.

I think it is too early to compare staying power, if that's measured in terms of mentions in the popular culture, although I do see your point. Those movies invented something memorable and tightly defined in each case, and Avatar was more high concept. I don't mind; the Toilet Duck may get more attention for its inventor than Andrew Wiles got for proving Fermat's a Last Theorem, but I know which one I'd rather be.

There was a video game (two actually if you include ios) and a toy line. Unfortunately, there were no books or television to expand the universe.
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:42 PM
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I think the perception from the writer viewpoint is "that its memory has faded, Yet being a mirror story. this is a rather narrow sighted viewpoint on a number of levels, Avatar has a very strong reflection and core underlying seed symbology that endures well past its experience at the cinema, as well as gauging its ability to push lots of successful marketed "products". if one only marks a films "success" with how much post release product it can push into the Global market, and can only "see" is success from that viewpoint, then one fails to grasp the bigger picture of the films continued influence on much deeper root levels.
one must also take into account the films symbology has been preserved as a threat by those who drive public influence viewpoints and agendas as it allows people to root "see them" for who they are and what they are "really" trying to do, these people have huge control influence in the media and control of its "projected" viewpoints so its not that surprising at all that they would try and suppress continued Global awareness and conversation revolving around Avatar, as well as attempt to create sublime doubt and cognitive dissidence revolving around the films success on those levels, they want people to "forget the film" and what it represents,
there is an example here exposing some of those behind this agenda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3xa30onBVU

The films reflection lives on and is strengthened by the fact that its not over marketed in honor of the root "ethos" values the film presented.

Last edited by allroock123; 01-11-2015 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
Avatar is many things, but one of the most important things is a commentary on the brutally, almost unbelievably wrong and ugly things going on in the tropics (especially the Amazon basin) right now.
And I would be remiss if I did not point out that this is a separate problem (or maybe a sub-problem) of the dystopia shown in the beginning of the extended cut. We are racing towards that world, and it has not slowed down. Cameron's made some enemies, but he's not really a bad guy, and he wanted to show people how bad things could get and what kinds of things we have already lost (Pandora being the idealized unspoilt wilderness-planet with a thriving ecology) so much of.
So I'm disappointed that so few people really "got it", but I'm not surprised.
^This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty Glass View Post
I have often wondered this myself: why a movie that broke all kinds of records has managed to fade from the public consciousness so much.
What I think is more important than Avatar simply being visible as a movie is whether or not its word of warning is being heeded. In the past five years I've tried to keep abreast of environmental news and its connections to politics. Climate change and inaction on the issue concern me greatly. While some gains may have been made recently, I still see a lot of trouble. I was too idealistic to even hope that a single work of fiction could bring about change more rapidly.
Perhaps if Avatar needs to be more visible again, then it should fall on the devotees like us to make it happen while James Cameron et al do whatever they need to do. What I would like to see is groups of people meeting for volunteer work like at the last meet-up. Habitat restorations, beach clean-ups, hiking trail maintenance jobs...even non-environmental tasks at places like food banks, which I have enjoyed being a part of. And then, when those people are asked what has impelled them to lend a hand, they name the movie that brought them together.
^And this.

All very good points made, Raiden and Empty Glass!
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyvaris View Post
Why

Okay, so clearly this doesn't apply to us in terms of forgetting, but the article brings up some good points.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Cameron really did not expect Avatar to take off like it did. Remember back to '09, was there really that much Avatar merchandise? Was there really that concrete a marketing push? Not really. It came out and then it just...kept going.

Thoughts?
A lot of his movies are hard to market merchandise for - not much Titanic, The Abyss, or even Terminator/Aliens merchandise. I don't think he ever intends for a movie not to be big, but Avatar easily did surpass expectations, I think.

I disagree with the author's main assessment htough, that it's been forgotten - a lot of other workjs have displayed awareness of it enough toi make jokes, but the real legacy is more subtle, it's a general focus back onto visuals, and that motion capture characters have just become more and more common since.

I'm not old enough to remember the early Star Wars movies properly at release time, but I suspect there was a similar effect between the first and second there too.
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:20 AM
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They could have flooded the market with merchandise within six months if they'd wanted to. Not being ready isn't important; few people anticipate blockbusterdom. I personally am relieved there are no Neytiri Pez dispensers.
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Old 01-20-2015, 12:03 PM
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They could have, but it would have been awful quality judging by some of the weird things we actually did get, ASG for example. I guess I'd say JC never focused on making Avatar into a brand, or at least not a brand anywhere as huge as the movie is/was, just a guess.
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