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-   -   That's it. (http://www.tree-of-souls.com/general_discussion/2748-thats.html)

Sight Unseen 10-02-2010 09:14 AM

That's it.
 
DailyTech - Report: Obama Administration to Spy on Citizens Online to Fight "Terror"

I'm moving to Sealand.

Woodsprite 10-02-2010 09:34 AM

Figures.

Fkeu'itan 10-02-2010 09:35 AM

Hey, welcome to politics!

Now with 50% extra added lies!

No artificial colours or flavourings.
Product may contain untested, uncertified colourings and flavourings.

ISV Venture Star 10-02-2010 09:36 AM

Military-industrial complex.

ZenitYerkes 10-02-2010 09:37 AM

"Safety is only worth taking when you are free to enjoy it. Otherwise, it's prison safety -keep you safe and fed up in your guarded cell."

Sight Unseen 10-02-2010 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan (Post 99835)
Hey, welcome to politics!

Now with 50% extra added lies!

No artificial colours or flavourings.
Product may contain untested, uncertified colourings and flavourings.

So true. I wonder how politicians sleep at night.

Fosus 10-02-2010 12:30 PM

Pff very sad only. Do not like.

Advent 10-02-2010 12:52 PM

Online Terror? Are they talking about trolls? :xD:

Sight Unseen 10-02-2010 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advent (Post 99877)
Online Terror? Are they talking about trolls? :xD:

I wish that's what They meant. :D

What really pisses me off more than anything is the apathy. "Violation of the constitution... whatever. Who wants to watch football?" :facepalm:

I don't even get a clean Internet pipe now. AT&T's head office is a ten minute drive from my house, where the NSA uses beam splitters and racks full of decryption hardware right now to spy on everyone, including me. Why not use that cash to try and desuckify my latency? There should be a law against 600ms ping.

caveman 10-02-2010 02:58 PM

My new favorite song:

YouTube - Neil Young - Rockin' In The Free World

rapunzel77 10-02-2010 03:24 PM

It is pathetic :(. This will do nothing to fight real criminals. All it will do will make average citizens into criminals for doing what they like to do. Our society has been apathetic for sooooo long. This is why I am against hate speech laws and censorship because it stifles free expression and discussion. There should be mutual respect for everyone's beliefs and views regardless if you agree with them or not. This is sadly the price that is paid :(. What do we want more? A society who is free to express themselves and say what they want even though if certain attitudes prevail in society it can be detrimental to all or do we want a secure society that curbs free thought and expression to the point that we are slaves of the system?

There must be a balance between security and freedom. If either one of them goes in their extreme directions, it will harm society.

Tsyal Makto 10-02-2010 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sight Unseen (Post 99840)
So true. I wonder how politicians sleep at night.

Easy, they're sociopaths.

One thing I've learned from politics is to never trust a politician to look out for your best interests, because they're all as crooked as a dog's hind leg (save a few that have managed to avoid the temptation of corporate money). They might run on good intentions, but as soon as they reach the National Mall, and get lobbiest money waved in their face, they loose touch with the same people that got them elected.

You see, they're not looking out for us anymore, they're looking out for a very, very small group of people that control the vast majority of money in the US (and, dare I say, the world?-.-). Laws like these are just to protect the aristocracy, not us. They know the people are getting wise to their bull**** (some, at least), and they're trying to put the squeeze on us.

This only further confirms to me that Obama is not going to change anything, and is just continuing the corporatist, fascist policies of the last decade (how soon we forget the Bush wire-taps ;)).

If I suddenly ever disappear from this forum, you know why...

Migg3006 10-02-2010 05:38 PM

I don't read it all, but this could be only politics:airquote: propaganda.

TxonTirea 10-02-2010 05:47 PM

*Stays firmly in the UK*
Sun? Naw, I'm good over here, where it rains, and our Government doesn't spy on us. What utter bullshivic. "Online Terror" Go jump off a building.

Isard 10-02-2010 07:47 PM

The terrorists won the day after 9/11.

GG America.

10 years and we're still quaking in our boots.

Dreaming Of Pandora 10-02-2010 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavier Foxx (Post 99905)
*Stays firmly in the UK Ireland*

This.

Fkeu'itan 10-02-2010 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavier Foxx (Post 99905)
*Stays firmly in the UK Ireland Wales*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreaming Of Pandora (Post 99910)
This.

This. :D

Советский меч 10-02-2010 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavier Foxx (Post 99905)
*Stays firmly in the UK*
Sun? Naw, I'm good over here, where it rains, and our Government doesn't spy on us. What utter bullshivic. "Online Terror" Go jump off a building.

You think your government doesnt watch you just because it isnt in a news report? WRONG!

ballju 10-02-2010 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow (Post 99914)
You think your government doesnt watch you just because it isnt in a news report? WRONG!

exactly and the uk WAS in not-so-recent news report Every-phone-call-email-and-internet-click-stored-by-state-spying-databases.html

Anyway on the topic at hand this is just extending wiretaps Lawful interception - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to the digital era.
Quote:

“We’re talking about lawfully authorized intercepts,” said Valerie E. Caproni, general counsel for the Federal Bureau of Investigation. “We’re not talking expanding authority. We’re talking about preserving our ability to execute our existing authority in order to protect the public safety and national security.”
All this is doing is allowing for internet wiretaps an extension of something that we had in the 'analog' era.
  • Communications services that encrypt messages must have a way to unscramble them.
  • Developers of software that enables peer-to-peer communication must redesign their service to allow interception.
oh noes the feds can spy on people they have 'just cause' and evidence to spy on what is this world coming to ...

source: U.S. Tries to Make It Easier to Wiretap the Internet

Grif 10-02-2010 10:44 PM

Underground peer to peer chat here we come!
Who wants to have a key signing party?

Human No More 10-02-2010 11:18 PM

Come over here :P
It may not be perfect but a warrant is still needed and that needs proof.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sight Unseen (Post 99881)
decryption hardware

Ok, take than tinfoil hat off. Just use AES and your data will be good for at least the next few hundred years. Do you know how hard strong crypto is to crack? :P


Quote:

Originally Posted by Grif (Post 99931)
Underground peer to peer chat here we come!
Who wants to have a key signing party?

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/responsible_behavior.png
:awesome:

Советский меч 10-02-2010 11:28 PM

I know a cryptologist in the NSA. Theres alot you guys dont know.

ZenitYerkes 10-02-2010 11:33 PM

And I wish we needn't to know them.

Grif 10-02-2010 11:41 PM

My advise it to find some good crypto, nothing new, stuff that has been around for awhile and still is believed to be unbroken.

Sight Unseen 10-02-2010 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto (Post 99895)
If I suddenly ever disappear from this forum, you know why...

Same.
/me quietly takes off TPB shirt, puts on "I <3 Obama" shirt.
/me now has a serious rash on torso, trouble breathing. :xD:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aihwa (Post 99909)
10 years and we're still quaking in our boots.

Yeah. I believe that the government has done more for the terrorists than the terrorists have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Human No More (Post 99936)
Come over here :P
It may not be perfect but a warrant is still needed and that needs proof.

As soon as I move out, get a job, etc, I'm moving to Sweden. Piratpartiet FTW! (Sorry UK :P)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Human No More (Post 99936)
Ok, take than tinfoil hat off. Just use AES and your data will be good for at least the next few hundred years. Do you know how hard strong crypto is to crack? :P

You can't encrypt everything, and at some point data is always vulnerable.
Eavesdrop on keyboards wirelessly - Hack a Day
Center for Information Technology Policy Lest We Remember: Cold Boot Attacks on Encryption Keys

/me keeps tin foil hat. :rolleyes:

Advent 10-03-2010 12:02 AM

Well at least in Australia, the government wouldn't try it.

You'd think with all these taxes they'd have enough money but noooooo, they're too busy spending it on Healthcare Reforms and Navy defenses and a National Broadband Network....

Oh. :shock:

Human No More 10-03-2010 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow (Post 99941)
I know a cryptologist in the NSA. Theres alot you guys dont know.

I very nearly lol'd IRL.

There isn't the computing power on earth to crack even a single message.
There's a reason the NSA didn't want people to even have DES, which is far, far weaker than proper algorithms. Not to mention that if you have something critical, you just use multiple algorithms - AES combined with Blowfish and/or Serpent means that even if there is a weakness in one (EXTREMELY unlikely as if there was, it would have been found already) then any analysis method is worthless.
Stop reading books like Digital Fortress, that book actually made me laugh IRL.

Isard 10-03-2010 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow (Post 99941)
I know a cryptologist in the NSA. Theres alot you guys dont know.

My friend, you know nothing. :rolleyes:

There's no such thing as secrets. Well, at least secrets that I dont hear about.

TxonTirea 10-03-2010 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Human No More (Post 99977)
Stop reading books like Digital Fortress, that book actually made me laugh IRL.

That book was amusing. I loved it. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow (Post 99914)
You think your government doesnt watch you just because it isnt in a news report? WRONG!

No, because I haven't been arrested/fined/warned for downloading things illegally means I'm not being watched. Good thing I'm not as paranoid as you. :cool:

Советский меч 10-03-2010 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aihwa (Post 100009)
My friend, you know nothing. :rolleyes:

There's no such thing as secrets. Well, at least secrets that I dont hear about.

Keep living in a dream

Woodsprite 10-03-2010 04:22 AM

Please tell me we're not entering into:



http://carpediemdeando.blogspot.es/img/john_nash.jpg



^this realm. :rolleyes:

Советский меч 10-03-2010 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavier Foxx (Post 100016)
That book was amusing. I loved it. :D



No, because I haven't been arrested/fined/warned for downloading things illegally means I'm not being watched. Good thing I'm not as paranoid as you. :cool:

Thats pure ignorance, "i havent been arrested for downloading stuff the government doesnt care about". I really wish I could live like you, believing erythings just fine and the government doesnt watch me, but sadly I cannot. If paranoid means the opposite of blind, Im guilty.

Woodsprite 10-03-2010 04:35 AM

I think of the whole thing as one big trap from which I can't escape. That way, I know I'll eventually be crucified for whatever I may do on the internet, but at least I'll be going with a smile. :cool:

One of my favorite Gladiator quotes (slightly in accordance): "Death smiles on us all. All we can do is smile back."

Advent 10-03-2010 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite (Post 100040)
I think of the whole thing as one big trap from which I can't escape.

True. Very true.

The internet: the perfect trap for criminals and terrorists.
After all, there's only one place they can get high speed pornography. :rolleyes:

Советский меч 10-03-2010 04:46 AM

Ohhh and to all of you who think you are safe in your country, your very wrong. Even if your government doesnt watch you. Mine does.

Sight Unseen 10-03-2010 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow (Post 100037)
If paranoid means the opposite of blind, Im guilty.

^This

ZenitYerkes 10-03-2010 05:08 PM

Wait.

If we are menaced by our governments or their actions, shouldn't "we the people" stop them?

Or anything else, actually: if you don't like something, you either put up with it or change it. Why not taking the second option for once?

Fosus 10-03-2010 06:02 PM

"We the people" may be less than the people believing it's for the greater good... :/

txen 10-03-2010 06:53 PM

Whoa, stop the bus. Now please remove the tin foil hats and step away from them.

Somehow the whole thing just doesn't worry me quite as much as it does some. Sure I don't like the idea of the government listening in, but I really doubt that they take much interest in what I have to say.

Crypto can help a lot with securing transmissions, but it is only as strong as the weakest link. The cipher may be strong, but is your key management as strong? It's usually a lot easier to compromise the system that you are working on than it is to break the cipher.

When we get quantum computing crypto as we know it is likely dead anyhow. Who knows we might have it already. The NSA is not big on public disclosures.

While the tech in Digital Fortress was not exactly realistic, the book was a good read. I liked it, but I don't believe the details that were used in the story.

Unlike most of you I did have a time in my life where I was actively watched by my government. Part of it was by birth and then my job. When I got my first job out of school at a defense contractor I received my security clearance in record time. It was because I already had a complete security profile. They just had to rubber stamp my application. It was normally a 3 or more month process, but I had mine in four weeks. I've been out of that world for 15 years, but who knows I'm probably still on some kind of list.

I think that the looking for the terrorists is a noble goal. It's also a nearly an impossible one. I do worry that ability to read everything invites misuse. The movie Enemy of the State comes to mind. Like everything it's a two edged sword.

Tsyal Makto 10-03-2010 06:59 PM

And it's not a sword I trust the government with. Well, the US government, at least.

Why? Because of stories like these.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/14830...-war_activists

Wasn't freedom one of the messages that stuck with us from Avatar? Now the government wants to tell us what we can and can't see and say on the Internet. Where's the freedom of speech? Freedom of expression? I'm sick and tired of the government stripping me of my rights, all in the name of fighting some boogeyman.

If any FBI or CIA oinkers are reading this - *raises middle fingers* **** YOU. :angry:

I had to get that off my chest. I'm just sick and tired of my freedom - already restrricted by living in modern society - slowly being ripped away. Every fascist power needs a common enemy to use to instill fear in people.


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