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  #1  
Old 10-13-2010, 11:48 AM
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Toruk Makto, Admin
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Default Apology

This goes to everyone... I did post it before, but it was in the middle of a thread and not many people seemed to notice it, so this goes here as well. I also want to take the opportunity to add an explanation, in a way.

Some threads recently have ended badly... I have always thought that when a thread degenerated into an argument, there is little or no hope for it. That is why several threads were closed.

I see now that things CAN be salvaged even when a thread has reached that state. I WILL try to - if people can be asked to calm down and they do, there is no need.

I will try my hardest to be more careful around these threads, but EVERYONE has to accept that others do not necessarily think the same way as them, and avoid making things personal. That goes for me too. That goes for both sides, and not just religious 'debates' but all 'debates'. I have no problem with discussing things and have even found some of the threads there interesting. Unfortunately, when people disagree, sometimes it gets taken too far. That breeds resentment and that makes things worse the next time.

I've been on more forums than many people could guess... Some I've stayed on, some I've left one way or another, some forums died. Most forums were completely different to here, but there is one constant. In the ones that die, if you were familiar with it and took a look beneath the surface, you would see that they all had problems with arguments, resentment, people holding grudges and building up an agenda against others.

I don't want to see this happening and I see that I was not helping. I am not saying I was the only person - far from it, but now, I hope to change that. I will listen, but not to people openly flouting the rules. On either side. If you avoid making personal insults, ad hominem attacks and fallacious arguments against an entire idea, there will be no problem. I HAVE enjoyed some discussions in that subforum, but when things degrade to ad hominem, I do not enjoy it and sometimes I respond out of anger, I am not the only one. After all, we do all have instincts.
Equally, everyone needs to avoid driving threads OUTSIDE the 'debate' forum off topic into a debate, whether consciously or not. People generally KNOW what others' stance is, people do not need to remind others of that constantly when it bears little or no relevance to the thread.

I love ToS more than just about anything else in my life. Every time there is an argument, it hurts me. Tonight has made me cry quite a lot. This post has taken a lot of effort and even more time and thinking on my part to write, I just hope it will be worth it.

I value every person here - as I said earlier, every person who leaves makes me wonder to myself 'why?', sometimes I have spent quite a lot of time wondering what was wrong.

I NEED ToS... I have nothing else really. I'm having a very hard time generally at the moment, I have no real idea where I'm going, university is very hard and stressful and I need things in my life to keep me going. ToS is one of those, the main thing. Things have been terrible in my life recently, I have had far too much stress, I'm lonely, I have nobody to talk to about how I feel IRL. I let all this get to me and affect my judgement.

I have done these things myself at times too, and I realise that and fully regret it. I apologies for every time I've made a comment that was too far or not really related to a discussion... and I apologise for every time I've responded to one. I apologise for things I may have said disagreeing with others about site decisions in the last few days. Looking back, I realise what a mistake I've made, this is why I want to change things now.

I'm giving a huge chance here, but I need people to give me one
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2010, 12:17 PM
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Sure, I'll take that offer up. I'll give you another chance. Won't be much of a problem for me anyway, really; I'm done with debating on ToS.

*contemplates whether or not to insert smiley...*



I'll help in resolving things as well, if I can. I'm not going to take sides anymore. Consider me Mr. Stoic Man concerning religion, politics, and ethics, except if PMed.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 10-13-2010 at 12:20 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-13-2010, 12:28 PM
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Ikran Makto
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Its ok HNM.


If it makes you feel any better, ToS helps me a lot also. I am enrolled my first term in college as a freshman and I'm already taking 19 credit hours, 15 in my college's Honor's program, the rest in level 200 courses, and I already feel swamped. ToS is a good place that I like to visit often and I know you try your hardest to make it the best place possible. You love it, you love the people, and want to see it prosper and grow.

If anything we should all be apologizing to you for all of the fights on here that you had to witness.

Last edited by Banefull; 10-13-2010 at 12:40 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-13-2010, 05:19 PM
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Ikran Makto
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I admit that I have stayed away from TOS for a while because the discussions would devolve into arguments, insults, etc. Thank you for the apology HNM. I hope to see TOS get back to how it was, a forum where people mutually respected each other and where lively discussion could be done. I have enjoyed our "debates". I'm sorry to hear that you are going through some rough times. Life is never easy.

Woodsprite: I don't think you necessarily need to go into the opposite direction of complete stoicism but I guess it would help to tone down the rhetoric .
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banefull View Post
Its ok HNM.


If it makes you feel any better, ToS helps me a lot also. I am enrolled my first term in college as a freshman and I'm already taking 19 credit hours, 15 in my college's Honor's program, the rest in level 200 courses, and I already feel swamped. ToS is a good place that I like to visit often and I know you try your hardest to make it the best place possible. You love it, you love the people, and want to see it prosper and grow.

If anything we should all be apologizing to you for all of the fights on here that you had to witness.
Banefull....umm...19 credit hours!!! I worked hard to get my degree but I knew I couldn't handle that much, especially when you are dealing with most of them being in the honor's program. I'm impressed. I hope you succeed in it . Btw, what is your major?
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2010, 06:59 PM
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hey, i feel sad this even had to happen on ToS, but i know what u mean when you need this place. it is still a GOOD place despite all the arguing and stuff. that tends to happen anywhere unless its a really small community. thanks for the apology, even tho i feel u didnt need to make one, cause no one is at fault this is very nice and hopefuly things will get even better at ToS
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2010, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
Consider me Mr. Stoic Man concerning religion, politics, and ethics
My life story.

I'll take up the offer, but I hope we can live up to it.
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2010, 01:56 AM
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Sorry HNM. I admit I am one of the more...strong willed people here, and I know I've caused my share of conflict, even outside the debate forum. So again, sorry, ma tsmukan.

You know, for a while now I've just had a sort of...vibe...about tension on this forum. Everytime I would be on here, I could just cut the tension with a knife, it was that thick. Even if nothing was said, I could just feel that something was going on. Though now that we're getting all of this out there, and we're working through it like the family we are, I'm feeling better.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2010, 04:01 AM
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Yeah, I can agree to this.

But I'm still going to avoid it if I can.

I just don't think it's worth it to take the risk of debating such profound things........
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