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Old 11-06-2010, 01:48 PM
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Ok, we already know it, at so many levels, but for me yesterday, experienced another reminder!

So brand new Auntie, naturally excited, stops up at the hospital to go visit her new niece, and of course my brother and sister-in-law! A time of joy and celebration, of family support, of sharing this miracle of life with those closest to you!

At least that's what it should be right?

NO!

Hospital Policies, sighted as in the best interest of Mom and new baby, don't allow anyone but Father and Grandparents to visit, even when the new Mom and Dad indicate otherwise. No apologies after all the non-personal medical staff, obviously have a job to do, and know what is in the best interest for your relatives!

No wonder we are dying as a species, as a whole!

I just ......

society is so ****ed!
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:42 PM
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Not everywhere is like that at least, I saw my second youngest sister when she was still there, but that's still really sad... I hope you see her soon.
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:07 AM
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Yeah, but our infant mortality rate has dropped as well. Take your choice.
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Aihwa View Post
Yeah, but our infant mortality rate has dropped as well. Take your choice.
Umm .. and what statistics are you 'reading', if you read in between the lines in medical stats .. umm NO infant mortality and complications for mother and babies HAS NOT decreased, but increased!

Whereas where there has been an increase in the resurgence of traditional MIdwifery and Doula's being used, there is FAR LESS complications than when the 'medical system' intervenes!
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What this world really needs is more artists and environmentalists!



"Its only 'here' that we lose perspective, out at the Cosmic Consciousness Level things get a lot clearer. For example, there is an actual star pattern that is traced in the shape of a Willow Tree, across the breadth of the Milky Way! And no wonder Indigenous peoples refer to the 'here after' as the Happy Hunting Grounds! Has it ever occured to anyone why the bioluminescence dots, on the Na'vi!"
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:22 AM
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Its all about laws and liability. If anything happened they could be held liable.

Laws can be good but I think society is too obsessed with legal process these days. Laws without common sense are worthless.

Last edited by Banefull; 11-07-2010 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Aihwa View Post
Yeah, but our infant mortality rate has dropped as well. Take your choice.
Why not have both? Letting a new aunt see her new niece with the [grand]parents doesn't seem like too much to ask for.

This seems like another one of those baseless rules that certain forms of authority enact just to exert that extra little bit of control over people, just because they can.
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:09 AM
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eh

Google - public data









Yeaaaah... Doctors help.



((EDIT: If they were trying to be bastards, they'd say nobody gets near the baby for a few days.))

(((DOUBLE EDIT: You'll get to see her, its just a precaution. )))
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Last edited by Isard; 11-07-2010 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:42 AM
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Hospitals are some of the most pernicious examples of "sky people" thinking around. They don't get the mind-body connection, period. And their arrogance is breathtaking, especially in view of the fact that mistakes made by medical professionals kill 98,000 people a year in the United States; one in ten actions taken by doctors or hospital staff is in error in some way (e.g., misreading medication label, wrong dosage, etc).

The film "The Doctor" should be required viewing in medical school.
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:53 AM
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Ah the good 'ol red tape and crippling paranoia that comes with life these days...

I worry about the way that people are terrified of literally everything these days. There's this thing called an immune system. Apparently, it's been quite popular for a few years now with some people. However did we cope before "Kills 99% of all known germs" multi-surface cleaners and alcohol handwash?

Sorry, I know i'm being overly cynical and sarcastic, but it just seems that it's all gone too far. I grew up in an environment where dirt and mess were a part of life, and i've never come down with a serious illness of any kind. The worst I have ever had to endure is a touch of the common cold now and again, due in no small part no doubt to actually having built up an immunity. Is it any wonder why people who work in offices have the highest level of sick-leave?
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:04 AM
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As long as the baby is doing ok, I don't see how the hospital could override the choice of the parents. I think that's a bit overreaching of the hospital actually...

But think of all the time you'll get to spend with her when she gets released
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:21 PM
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I don't see any 'mind/body connection' (particularly since one is a function of the other) being a part of it... Different places have different policies. Some decided it is appropriate to protect them, others are more allowing.
Sempu, even if 98,000 people per year die by mistake (source?), how many people WOULD have died without medical assistance? Millions at the very least, and the vast majority of the population over their lifetimes.

Fkeu'itan, you're right, but there's a difference between maintaining a healthy immune system and intentionally taking risks. I grew up similarly and I've only ever been properly unwell once, but then again, there was still a degree of being reasonable and not just allowing everything.
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:13 AM
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I think for me it boils down completely to a woman's feminist perspective. First of all the Medical Establishment is predominated by MALES, was created by MALES, and is based on a Model that sees the MALE body as the description of what is normal and healthy, and blatantly views FEMALES, as inherently diseased right from the start because they are not Male! This is a proven fact, known, not a subjective analysis! Fortunately that is changing significantly over the next space of years, because the increase of Woman studying to be Doctors is increasing dramatically to almost 50%! Any it is being shown that as Woman enter the Medical Field as Doctors they are challenging that stereotypical view that has been so dominate for so long!

250 million years of human history, where the birthing and care of babies was done and held sacred by Woman, Midwifes, etc versus what 150 years by Males ... um I think the old system managed quite well under the circumstance! Yes there are a lot of improvements, but the reality is that there is a lot of complications, such as the life long effects of traumatic birthing experiences (meaning forceps, intervention, rushing, drips, epidermal s, episeotomys. DRUGS, and a million other medical practices that leave effects on both mother and baby that deteriorate their overall health for life! OH and we will not even begin to go into how C-Sections are becoming routine instead of for high risk only .. No I will forgo giving my whole tantrum on that subject!

What feminists ask is for a balance between traditional and modern, and we are a long way from that!

Obviously a sensitive issue with me .. but then I had to fight to try not to have all those things done to me and have as natural birth experiences as I could, when I did give birth to my three children! A woman is not considered when she is giving birth, the only thing that matters is what suits or makes it easy for doctors and medical staff, not what makes its the best experience for mom and baby!

And the other reason that this is sensitive, is because Aboriginal or Native Teachings and Life uphold the Family, including Extended family as intricate and needed for support, which in this case my sister-in-law is of The People!




On the other side ... I did actually get snuck in to see her today, and she is absolutely adorable! Yes I have just a bit of a rebellious streak to me!
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It was impossible not to have, It's impossible not to be, It's impossible not to still ...!



What this world really needs is more artists and environmentalists!



"Its only 'here' that we lose perspective, out at the Cosmic Consciousness Level things get a lot clearer. For example, there is an actual star pattern that is traced in the shape of a Willow Tree, across the breadth of the Milky Way! And no wonder Indigenous peoples refer to the 'here after' as the Happy Hunting Grounds! Has it ever occured to anyone why the bioluminescence dots, on the Na'vi!"

Last edited by Mika; 11-09-2010 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika View Post
I think for me it boils down completely to a woman's feminist perspective. First of all the Medical Establishment is predominated by MALES, was created by MALES, and is based on a Model that sees the MALE body as the description of what is normal and healthy, and blatantly views FEMALES, as inherently diseased right from the start because they are not Male! This is a proven fact, known, not a subjective analysis! Fortunately that is changing significantly over the next space of years, because the increase of Woman studying to be Doctors is increasing dramatically to almost 50%! Any it is being shown that as Woman enter the Medical Field as Doctors they are challenging that stereotypical view that has been so dominate for so long!
I completely disagree. You claim it's a fact, but sorry to say this, you're not providing any evidence and I think you're letting this experience (which I agree they did do the wrong thing) form opinions for you.
There are whole fields of medicine EXCLUSIVELY dedicated to women, which in my opinion there should be due to the fact that the requirement for them is unique, with not as many for men (also equally necessary though).
Nobody ever said that women can't or shouldn't be doctors or that they aren't as good. It is important to have both, as in just about every profession.

Quote:
250 million years of human history, where the birthing and care of babies was done and held sacred by Woman, Midwifes, etc versus what 150 years by Males ... um I think the old system managed quite well under the circumstance! Yes there are a lot of improvements, but the reality is that there is a lot of complications, such as the life long effects of traumatic birthing experiences (meaning forceps, intervention, rushing, drips, epidermal s, episeotomys. DRUGS, and a million other medical practices that leave effects on both mother and baby that deteriorate their overall health for life! OH and we will not even begin to go into how C-Sections are becoming routine instead of for high risk only .. No I will forgo giving my whole tantrum on that subject!
Well, I'll tell you something. Without a hospital I might not have survived. All the others were fine, and without any problems (and ironically, NOT female exclusive in terms of the environment either), but professionals do need to be present in case of problems.

Neither is it male dominated, if anything the opposite within pregnancy, as the majority are female, with the possible exception of doctors (where, as you are saying, there are becoming more women).
Men have a right to be part of things too. They provide the DNA that creates the baby in the first place. They have as much right to help bring lives into the world. They have a right to want to help people and not to be denied or discriminated against, just as women do.

Quote:
What feminists ask is for a balance between traditional and modern, and we are a long way from that!
I disagree... Maybe it isn't 100% balanced, but does it really need to be 100%
Do you REALLY, genuinely think that a trained doctor would go against a hospital's policy (which DOES vary depending on where) simply because she's female? While I may not agree with the policy in the first place in your case, you can't make a statement like that because you're generalising the entire population by doing so.

'Feminism' is just disguised sexism. Equality is about being equal, not giving ANYBODY special rights.

Quote:
Obviously a sensitive issue with me .. but then I had to fight to try not to have all those things done to me and have as natural birth experiences as I could, when I did give birth to my three children! A woman is not considered when she is giving birth, the only thing that matters is what suits or makes it easy for doctors and medical staff, not what makes its the best experience for mom and baby!
Sorry to say this, but you did have your children a long time ago... not saying things were perfect, but in general, people are treated much better now,. Yes, I get that maybe women can understand the mother more in terms of being able to have the same experience, but that is no reason at all to exclude men, who may be equally or more capable of doing the job, simply over that. There's no reason to say it's a job that should be handled by anyone exclusively.

Quote:
And the other reason that this is sensitive, is because Aboriginal or Native Teachings and Life uphold the Family, including Extended family as intricate and needed for support, which in this case my sister-in-law is of The People!

I agree there... I was visited by my grandparents when I was a day old and by the rest of my family a couple of days later, as have all my sisters. I visited them all, the latest was something like 2 days because I don't live with my parents. Yes, I was allowed to and I think that is right, but I don't see how you can go from there to a rant against medical care - it's something which I find important because so many people I care about owe their lives. We all have someone like that. Think about that for a while.


Quote:
On the other side ... I did actually get snuck in to see her today, and she is absolutely adorable! Yes I have just a bit of a rebellious streak to me!
Great to hear Hope she's well and that she can go home soon

Sorry if my tone here sounds a bit strong, but this is something which I care about and I don't see why ANYONE should be able to dictate on it. I really am sorry to hear about this experience, but please don't let it give you a negative opinion of everyone based on it
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mika View Post
I just ......

society is so ****ed!
Well said.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mika View Post
...blatantly views FEMALES, as inherently diseased right from the start because they are not Male!
With all due respect, I really haven't heard of this. No doctor I've ever talked to has ever hinted that women are diseased because they are not male, in fact only incredibly ignorant and sexist people could make such a stupid presumption. I highly doubt that some, if any, male doctors actually hold this type of view.

Quote:
Yes there are a lot of improvements, but the reality is that there is a lot of complications, such as the life long effects of traumatic birthing experiences (meaning forceps, intervention, rushing, drips, epidermal s, episeotomys. DRUGS, and a million other medical practices that leave effects on both mother and baby that deteriorate their overall health for life!
While I'm sure there are rare cases in which there is damage done to mother or child with these devices/drugs, for the most part they produce more positive results than not. A hundred years ago, these practices were not used, and there was a far higher rate of infant and mother deaths during childbirth, so they seem to be doing their job.

As to them not wanting anyone but parents around the child, i agree with you 100% that doctors are a tad too precautionary about who they let in. I just felt that a few of the things you said were a tad generalized, at least pertaining to the whole "women are diseased" thing.

EDIT: What HNM said, I toned it down a lot because I didn't want to seem like I was looking to start a debate, which is what this looks like it's about to turn into.

Last edited by Devourment; 11-09-2010 at 04:41 AM.
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