Into Eternity - the 100.000 year project - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
Go Back   Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum » General Forums » General Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-29-2011, 11:05 PM
auroraglacialis's Avatar
Tsulfätu
auroraglacialis can now be called "doctor"
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 1,622
Default Into Eternity - the 100.000 year project

Video link Into Eternity - videos.arte.tv (available for about 5 days, may require a german IP)
Otherwise the title is "Into Eternity".

It is a documentary about the longest lasting project in human history. Is is supposed to last 10 times longer than any construction ever before and it is larger than most. There will be messages hidden in it for future generations of humans that may have experienced the collapse of civilization, a new civilization, wars, uprisings or a new ice age. All this has to be taken into consideration when this project goes on its way.

The reason for it? It is to bury something deep - to bury a fire that cannot be extinguished, a fire that burns with danger and that will kill humans and other animals alike if they get to close. A fire that is so dangerous that our generation had to build Ongeluk to bury it.

That monument is not for the bodies of Queens or Kings, or to store the knowledge of civilization or to worhip gods - it is to bury our nuclear waste in the depths below Finland in the hope that it can be contained there for the next 100000 years until it is safe again.

People plan like this when it comes to that construction. This artistic documentary deals with the thoughts they have and the considerations. And with the emotional aspect of a project of an unprecedented scale that is required to fuel the need for electricity for just a few decades.
__________________
Know your idols: Who said "Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.". (Solution: "Mahatma" Ghandi)

Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-29-2011, 11:32 PM
Empty Glass's Avatar
Karyu
Empty Glass has no status.
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,432
Default

I'm not able to see the movie in the link. I assume this is it?







Looks absolutely fascinating.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-29-2011, 11:41 PM
Tsyal Makto's Avatar
Tsulfätu
Tsyal Makto glad to be home!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Body - Chicago, Spirit - Pandora
Posts: 1,873
Default

Interesting. I'll definitely watch it when it's available here (yeah, it's not working for me).
__________________


The Dreamer's Manifesto

Mike Malloy, a voice of reason in a world gone mad.

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-30-2011, 09:19 AM
Marvellous Chester's Avatar
Aristocratic Villain
Marvellous Chester - Get away from me pleb!
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Leicestershire, England
Posts: 636
Default

Thanks for the link Aurora, will definitely watch.

EDIT: Hm, I'm also struggling to view it. I think you're right a German IP might be needed.

Last edited by Marvellous Chester; 01-30-2011 at 09:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-30-2011, 10:02 AM
Fosus's Avatar
Tsulfätu
Fosus can not has status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,569
Send a message via Skype™ to Fosus
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis View Post
bury our nuclear waste in the depths below Finland in the hope that it can be contained there for the next 100000 years until it is safe again.
Whatwhatwhaaaat? The most dangerous toxic ever created is all coming here?

(I didn't watch the video yet.. )
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-30-2011, 08:09 PM
Human No More's Avatar
Toruk Makto, Admin
Human No More has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In a datacentre
Posts: 11,751
Default

Very interesting idea, although I can't get the video in the OP to work either. I'll try and find the video when I can
__________________
...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-30-2011, 08:12 PM
Isard's Avatar
Old Guard
Isard -- Wait, you do hear the voices right?
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,416
Send a message via Skype™ to Isard
Default

You're right...


Back to coal guys, scrap the green thing.
__________________
:psyduck:
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-31-2011, 08:57 AM
auroraglacialis's Avatar
Tsulfätu
auroraglacialis can now be called "doctor"
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 1,622
Default

Yeah sorry for the link - it is part of German public television. But it does run in other countries public television, too - otherwise I am sure you can find an opportunity to watch it

@Fosus: AFAIK the idea in this project is only to place Finlands waste in it. Other countries will have to make such projects, too eventually. All of them. That means 10-20 such projects in the world, each of them has to be secure for 100.000 years against geological, environmental and human damage. Fun, yeah?
__________________
Know your idols: Who said "Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.". (Solution: "Mahatma" Ghandi)

Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-01-2011, 01:01 AM
Human No More's Avatar
Toruk Makto, Admin
Human No More has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In a datacentre
Posts: 11,751
Default

The point is that they are not intended for only one country's. As it is, there are only 3 or 4 countries that perform reprocessing, for example, and that is enough for all the world's requirements.
Also, you are scaremongering again. Remember that 90-95% of waste is reprocessed and reused. Not all of what is left is high activity isotopes that needs this level of storage. On the other hand, as Aihwa mentioned, coal releases large amounts of carcinogens and radioisotopes into the air, as opposed to waste that is securely stored with no environmental contamination, and coal also requires shallow strip mining to obtain (often in heavily forested areas) as opposed to deep mines through rock as used to produce the vast majority of uranium.
__________________
...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-01-2011, 12:30 PM
auroraglacialis's Avatar
Tsulfätu
auroraglacialis can now be called "doctor"
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 1,622
Default

I was just saying what was in the movie - that Ongeluk is intended for finnish waste only, and AFAIK the same is true for Switzerland, Germany, France and the USA. Nobody really wants to bury the waste of other nations. I think any government would have a very hard time explaining to the people why they take in potentially dangerous waste from other countries.
You know that I have an extreme aversion against using nuclear power in any way and reprocessing does not make it better. In fact during reprocessing the only thing tha happens is that the still useable part of the spent fuel rods is extracted and the waste is seperated from it. The waste then is still as dangerous as before. In dealing with radiactive waste, it is of no use to speak of volumes or mass, what counts is the conent of radiactive elements, the radiactivity and the toxicity of the elements. Reprocessing also produces Plutonium - the stuff nuclear bombs are made from and a substance that does not occur in Nature (and is extremely toxic).
I know the stuff has to go somewhere - it is here and we need to deal with it, so something like Ongeluk will be required. That does not make it any more unpredictable and scary, but even the people who participate in that project know, that it is not really a good idea to continue producing even more such waste. We start to gasp at what problems there are with disposing it, so to create even more of that stuff is insane.

EDIT.PS: Just to make another point in this - guess where the US wants to dump their waste: There are these stretches of land where only a few native american people live. Seems like a good place, yes? -> http://www.nirs.org/radwaste/yucca/yuccahome.htm
__________________
Know your idols: Who said "Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.". (Solution: "Mahatma" Ghandi)

Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"

Last edited by auroraglacialis; 02-01-2011 at 04:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-02-2011, 04:48 AM
caveman's Avatar
Tsamsiyu
caveman dreams...
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Heart
Posts: 646
Default

Not to destroy the serious tone but

OH

MY

GOD

Great idea...





TIME CAPSUL

Think of the possibilities....
__________________
Stay thirsty my friends...
C V M N
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-02-2011, 07:44 PM
Fosus's Avatar
Tsulfätu
Fosus can not has status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,569
Send a message via Skype™ to Fosus
Default

Am I the only one who sees no end in this? Nuclear power will be used no matter what. Coal will be used too, it's just a matter of time..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:52 PM
auroraglacialis's Avatar
Tsulfätu
auroraglacialis can now be called "doctor"
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 1,622
Default

Oh and as I dug up some more on nuclear power I found out two more interesting facts.
a) Australia dumps their nuclear waste on aboriginal land (of course), continuing a tradition of taking away indigenous life.
and b) It seems Canada wants to build nuclear reactor to drive their tar sands mining, which is a very energy intensive process that needs hot steam (heated by nuclear power in the future) to be injected into the tar sands. They also want to use nuclear power to mine oil shales, which basically means inserting heating rods into the soil, heating it all up for some years and then pumping out the oil. This is planned by Shell. I saw a lecture (in person, not in the internet!) of a representative of Shell once who was bragging about this "innovative" method.
__________________
Know your idols: Who said "Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.". (Solution: "Mahatma" Ghandi)

Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-04-2011, 02:44 AM
Human No More's Avatar
Toruk Makto, Admin
Human No More has no status.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In a datacentre
Posts: 11,751
Default

If that's your argument you use against nuclear energy, you could use the same one against electricity in general. Don't blame the tool, blame how it is used.
__________________
...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-04-2011, 10:06 AM
auroraglacialis's Avatar
Tsulfätu
auroraglacialis can now be called "doctor"
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 1,622
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
If that's your argument you use against nuclear energy, you could use the same one against electricity in general. Don't blame the tool, blame how it is used.
You mean I cannot use the argument that the waste is dumped on aboriginal land or that it is used for tar sands mining against nuclear power in general? That is partly true of course and that was not really my intention. I was just putting out facts about what is happening de facto now. So that argument is more one against a culture of occupation and opression - it just shows once more how insanity rules. From the post-medieval conquistadores to the settlers of the North Americas to the slave traders in Africa to the formation of "colonies" the line leads right up to the present when it comes to taking away indigenous peoples lands and their right to a healthy land. With the very same and arrogant arguments as always. I see no difference, no development there. And then yes, that argument goes against electricity in general also. Because I did in this post not attack the tool itself. Even if they want to make wind farms or solar power - I can guess where on earth they will put them. Again - "there is all this wasted unused lands with just some indigenous people living there. They will be grateful about the jobs we can offer". And it's not even always indigenous people, it is people without power in general. If there is no indigenous on the land, no vast unused space, they just displace other local people who have lived there for centuries. They just tear down whole villages in Germany to mine dirty brown coal or hydrofracture the ground beneath some farmers fields in the USA for natural gas mining.

But, and here comes the general critique again: Someone has to bear the price always, right? If civilization wants nuclear power, someone has to dig up the Uranium or Thorium, the tailings have to go somewhere, the power plants and reprocessing units has to be in someones neighborhood and someone has to live above the burial ground of the toxic and radioactive wastes of it. Ask people if they still want nuclear power if that means they have to bury the waste under the houses they and their families will live for seven generations. Of course no one will like that - so bury it under someone elses land? The whole crazy idea of creating waste is problematic. I think this is what makes civilized humans really different from other animals, that "we" create waste that is not food for some other animals but indeed is toxic for them and dangerous.

And 100.000 years? Who knows what is in 50.000 or in 10.000 years. Maybe the place that is now a desert or a remote stretch of land is then a lush forest or an agricultural landscape with tens of thousands of people living on them. But with nuclear waste the thing is, that it can even harm people far far away. If a storage place truely is disturbed, it will not just affect the people right in that place, it can potentially kill people hundreds of miles away.
__________________
Know your idols: Who said "Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.". (Solution: "Mahatma" Ghandi)

Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Visit our partner sites:

      pandoraworld.ru



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:16 AM.

Based on the Planet Earth theme by Themes by Design


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
All images and clips of Avatar are the exclusive property of 20th Century Fox.