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Old 07-08-2011, 01:44 PM
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Default DemNow Interview with Assange and Zizec

YouTube - ‪Julian Assange and Slovenian Philosopher Slavoj
This is a 2 hour interview of Amy Goodman with Philosopher Zizec and Information activist Assange.

Interesting parts:
at about min 43, Zizec talks about terrorism and how this society accepts terrorism as a means to continue to exist. Very good part - he point again to that in this hierarchical society the ones in power are allowed to do violence while others are not.

at about 1h05min, Assange makes an interesting distinction between what he describes as "civilized" behaviour (basically communicating with each other and working together) and says that being "civilized" does not mean industrialization. He says that this kind of collaborative behaviour that is commonly called "civilized" behaviour is actually what "we treasure about civilization". I think this is interesting as that behaviour is in no way linked to what we call civilization or even industrialization. If it is that what we cherish about civilization, then one can very well conclude from that statement, that civilization and industrialization are not a prerequisite for the things we cherish about being "civilized" - namely a culture of communication, cooperation, exchange of knowledge and "not doing the dumb thing".

at some point in the second hour he explains a bit the function of facebook or other social networks in the uprisings in the middle east. He compares them to a marketplace. Just like the famous place in Cairo where all the protesters met and experienced that they are not alone, giving them the courage to go on, so did in Assanges view the internet show that same thign to the people and encouraged them to go on.

The rest is worthwhile watching, too.

It is two hours long. If the link does not work, there are plenty of other sources for this. The video contains "language"
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:58 PM
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Sounds interesting, I'll watch it when I can.
I think that the point about terrorism is an interesting one (especially with a few of your threads) which I agree with.
Industrialisation isn't a prerequisite, certainly, and nobody ever said that, but it does assist in awareness.
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:09 PM
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Zizec is hilarious.
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:51 PM
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That's a good point about civilization. When it comes down to it, industrialization makes us no more civilized, or less "savage," all industrialization is is a means of production. All societies have a means of production, whether it be hunting/gathering, or agriculture, or industrialization. It makes us no more exceptional as a people, just different.

In many ways peoples that the modern world consider to be "primitive" or "savages" are also some of the nicest, and indeed, the most civilized, and dare I say, the most enlightened. In a lot of ways the peoples of the New World were more peace-minded, altruistic, and generally Christ-like than the "Christian" colonial imperialists who enslaved, infected, and slaughtered them. All one has to do is read the writings of Logan or Corn-Stalk to verify that. That's the way colonialism has always been, really. When it comes down to behavior, the oppressor is usually more savage than the oppressed.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:32 AM
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I'm a fan of Zizek. It's a shame he doesn't like Avatar.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto View Post
..industrialization makes us no more civilized, or less "savage," all industrialization is is a means of production. All societies have a means of production, whether it be hunting/gathering, or agriculture, or industrialization. It makes us no more exceptional as a people, just different.
Indeed. It ishowever the result of a certain type of civilization or maybe of civilization in general. It is the means of production of choice of this civilization.
And indeed I do not think civilization and certainly not industrialization makes us more "civil" in our behaviour.

I do have some severe linguistic problems with these wordings though. i think it is not a fair deal to connect "civil" or "civilized" behaviour in the sense of a cooperative, peaceful behaviour to the word of "civilization" which is depicting a certain and specific type of culture that is connected with cities, hierarchy and agriculture. To use these words does in a linguistic way deny non-civilized cultures like indigenous people in the Amazon or elsewhere the ability of such discourse. Assange in this interview hints to that disconnection without adressing it explicitly.

i think this is a remnant of a time when people thought of indigenous people at the same time as uncivilized and savage, as wild and without the ability of such "civil" interaction. This kind of thinking is not acceptable anymore. Sadly the language did not keep up with that and I think there is a lack of dissociation of these terms. Indeed I think that in many cases the interaction between the "uncivilized" people are more "civil" than those betweeen self proclaimed "civilized" people. And frankly ithink industrialization does not only not improve that behaviour but actually makes it worse, since it allows for power structures, ideas of domination and superiority to develop which go hand in hand with racism, speciesism and genderism. So i think that actually an industrialized civilization has probably to work harder to keep up "civil" behaviour than other civilizations or non-civilized societies, who also have to work to keep that up but have less structures that facilitate a breakdown of this good behaviour.
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Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
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