A Short Lesson For Consideration on Religious Persecuation - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
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Old 09-05-2011, 03:43 AM
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Default A Short Lesson For Consideration on Religious Persecuation

Lest any wonder, why I am a defender of Religion and Spirituality in General .. I would suggest that all read this excerpt .....

Between 1867 and 1870, Baha'u'llah the founder of the Baha'i Faith, wrote letters to all the kings and rulers of the earth, announcing His mission and putting forward principles for the evolution of peace in the world. One of those to whom he wrote was Queen Victoria. Although most of the rulers He addressed were condemned for their injustice and greed, there was no hint of criticism for the British queen. On the contrary, she was congratulated for two significant advances. Firstly for abolishing the slave trade:

�We have been informed that thou hast forbidden trading in slaves, both men and women. This, verily, is what God hath enjoined in this wondrous Revelation. God hath, truly, destined a reward for thee because of this.�

Secondly for allowing democratic government to flourish. Queen Victoria took a keen interest in the political affairs of the time and took seriously her role as head of the world�s largest empire.

"We have also heard that thou hast entrusted the reins of counsel into the hands of the representatives of the people. Thou, indeed, hast done well, for thereby the foundations of the edifice of thine affairs will be strengthened, and the hearts of all that are beneath thy shadow, whether high or low, will be tranquillized.�

Baha'u'llah went on to point out that the government should not just act in the narrow interests of this country but should act for the good of the world as a whole:

� It behoveth them, however, to be trustworthy among His servants, and to regard themselves as the representatives of all that dwell on earth."

The letter to Queen Victoria was a very important one because in it Baha'u'llah put forward several ideas which were applicable to all the rulers of the time. He addressed the sovereigns in general, pointing out the way they should rule their kingdoms:

"O kings of the earth! We see you increasing every year your expenditures, and laying the burden thereof on your subjects. This, verily, is wholly and grossly unjust.... lay not excessive burdens on your peoples. Do not rob them to rear palaces for yourselves; nay rather choose for them that which ye choose for yourselves... Your people are your treasures... By them ye rule, by their means ye subsist, by their aid ye conquer. Yet, how disdainfully ye look upon them! How strange, how very strange! "

He also used the opportunity to advance the idea of a meeting of all the sovereigns and to put forward the principle of collective security:

"Take ye counsel together, and let your concern be only for that which profiteth mankind and bettereth the condition thereof....�

"Be united, O concourse of the sovereigns of the world, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you and your peoples find rest. Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice."

He then announced His mission as the Promised One of all religions who would bring an age of peace:

�Regard the world as the human body which, though created whole and perfect, has been afflicted, through divers causes, with grave ills and maladies. That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith."

Apart from general letters to the kings and rulers of the earth, Baha'u'llah also wrote individually to the King of Prussia, the Emperors of France and of Austria, the Sultan of Turkey, the Shah of Persia and the Czar of Russia. They mostly ignored Him or sent scornful replies, but it is reported that when Queen Victoria received her letter she remarked "If this is of God, it will endure; if not, it can do no harm". It is interesting to note that all the other rulers who received a letter from Baha'u'llah subsequently lost power and their dynasties ended.

and if you wish to know what Baha'u'llah declared to the Kings and Monarchs and the subsequent demise of them for dismissing his warnings .. please see the following link ..

God Passes By, Pages 220-233
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:36 AM
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Remember that this is a person who wanted to ban divorce, homosexuality, gambling, and all sex outside marriage, and institute mandatory prayer.
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
Remember that this is a person who wanted to ban divorce, homosexuality, gambling, and all sex outside marriage, and institute mandatory prayer.
States the one whom also wants to ensure arbitrarily 'banning' discussions and discrimination against others for their beliefs ...

THE DIFFERENCE IS???????
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What this world really needs is more artists and environmentalists!



"Its only 'here' that we lose perspective, out at the Cosmic Consciousness Level things get a lot clearer. For example, there is an actual star pattern that is traced in the shape of a Willow Tree, across the breadth of the Milky Way! And no wonder Indigenous peoples refer to the 'here after' as the Happy Hunting Grounds! Has it ever occured to anyone why the bioluminescence dots, on the Na'vi!"

Last edited by Mika; 09-05-2011 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mika View Post
States the one whom also wants to ensure arbitrarily 'banning' discussions and discrimination against others for their beliefs ...

THE DIFFERENCE IS???????
It's HNM's forum. I'm sure that he doesn't want to ban speech of whatever, he just doesn't want it here.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
It's HNM's forum.
Wrong.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:50 PM
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Yes, wrong. On the other hand, nothing has been banned here just because some people dislike the idea of giving others a special 'dissent-free zone'.
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Old 09-05-2011, 01:10 PM
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So, is it a case of certain people enjoying attacking others, on their views?

I guess that's the only reason that people who dare to speak differently get it in the neck here at the moment...

Or is it because we're all - apparently - trying to 'convert' you to spirituality? (When, by the way... In reality, it is truly impossible to do so.) When all we are really doing is trying to talk to each other about it, in terms that fellow 'spiritualists' understand no less, but are constantly invaded on all fronts by nay-sayers.

We seem to be being branded as trying to be 'elitist' by some people who don't like that we're trying to discuss things they don't or can't necessarily understand or can relate to, yet many of the people here can do. Thus, the good old 'indoctrination' cards are being pulled out. Claiming people who want to discuss things are just out to put others through a salvation or something. There is no such thing in true spirituality. There is no single 'religion' or 'belief' to convert people to. It is massively personal, and just because we want to share our thoughts, feelings (be them 'scientifically' right or wrong) and some people may utilise sections of said discussion to take away with them, does not mean we're trying to start a 'Second Christian Dark Age' here or something.

What we are trying our best to do is just to have a sensible disussion about open feelings, without people charging in and mauling everything with closed-mindedness. As you yourself said;

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If you have a problem, simply don't reply - this thread doesn't concern your perceptions of this.
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Old 09-06-2011, 01:46 AM
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I have never feared indoctrination. I fear more arguments, the encouragement of a 'them and us' mentality, and on a personal level, I would not like to be associated with implicit support.
Yes, I responded rudely to this thread, and should have taken more time to think it through, but the need for this thread was prompted by something that should not have come to happen.
Some people feel they can't talk about things - that has to change, and I never said anything else there. But the change has to be over the forum, not creating a 'safe' subforum. Everyone needs to remember why we're here.
My earlier remark on a 'dissent-free zone' was perhaps not considerate either - I want to work so that there is no need to have a specific subforum to feel safe with a topic, but we need everyone's help on that.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:07 AM
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I don't feel that anything can be completely dissent free..If you have a topic, there will always be people with opposing views.Whether they choose to tolerate the other is anyone's guess.
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Old 09-06-2011, 05:44 AM
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I'm with Fkeu'itan on this topic 100%. I'm surprised how it seems this forum has become so hostile to spiritual discussion, on a board full of people who long to live among a race of beings who live a highly spiritual lifestyle.
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Old 09-06-2011, 06:17 AM
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I've wondered the same thing recently. It's a major contradiction.

I found this and I thought of the power of TOS and I had a tear in my eye and felt so sad because of all this opposition to such a simple thing..We should all be so welcoming..





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"Try to see the forest through her eyes."

Réalisant mon espoir, Je me lance vers la gloire. Je ne regrette rien. (Making my hope come true, I hurl myself toward glory. I regret nothing.)

Last edited by Pa'li Makto; 09-06-2011 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 09-06-2011, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika View Post
States the one whom also wants to ensure arbitrarily 'banning' discussions and discrimination against others for their beliefs ...

THE DIFFERENCE IS???????
Personally, as someone who prefers women (and yep, I'm female), I'm inclined to side-eye ANYONE who wants to 'ban' my sexuality.

HNM is a moderator in a forum. Aside from interacting here, he cannot actually influence or pronounce illegal any part of my life. A religious person, with enough backing, can - and frequently has throughout history and the present.

That's the difference.

That said, yes, the anti-spiritualism sentiment probably can, and also probably SHOULD be toned down, I think. Religion/spirituality does have its good points, along with the bad. I'm not exactly wanting to be one with the Na'vi like so many here, but the contradiction in other members of the board is really most odd.
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Old 09-06-2011, 11:25 AM
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That's part of the reason why I posted that video..To highlight the contradiction. Spirituality is such a huge part of the lives of every Na'vi and for quite a few humans..Those who aren't religious I might add/
I really need to reiterate this point: Religion is not spirituality, it can have some similar idea but spirituality is different.

On a side note: Say it loud and say it proud Ashen Key. Any homophobic sentiment of any kind anywhere should be left in the dark ages.
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"The man who learns only what others know is as ignorant as if he learns nothing.
The treasures of knowledge are the most rare, and guarded most harshly."
-Chronicle of the First Age


"Try to see the forest through her eyes."

Réalisant mon espoir, Je me lance vers la gloire. Je ne regrette rien. (Making my hope come true, I hurl myself toward glory. I regret nothing.)
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Old 09-06-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto View Post
That's part of the reason why I posted that video..To highlight the contradiction. Spirituality is such a huge part of the lives of every Na'vi and for quite a few humans..Those who aren't religious I might add/
I really need to reiterate this point: Religion is not spirituality, it can have some similar idea but spirituality is different.
Oof, yes, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the two are the same, not hardly. Religion is spiritual in a lot of it, but not all spirituality is religious. Same with faith, as far as I understand it - one of my books (on the history of Islam, actually) put it brilliantly: religion is the story of faith.

(to me, actually, the Na'vi are spiritual, but they also have a religion with ritual, and prayer, and set songs, and holy places, and so on - they have that 'story', so to speak)

Quote:
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On a side note: Say it loud and say it proud Ashen Key. Any homophobic sentiment of any kind anywhere should be left in the dark ages.
Man, I wish - I'm more open about my lack of religion than who I am attracted to. Anyway.
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:29 PM
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No one is persecuting religion or spirituality. When is everyone going to stop claiming that we are? If it happened in the past, it is in the past. I'm beginning to suspect we are incapable of moving forward.
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