A return to roots. - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
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Old 09-06-2011, 02:15 AM
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Default A return to roots.

The events and discussion of the last few days have made something clear.
People are not happy. No one person can be blamed for this, but people should accept their share of responsibility, so I am stepping up to do so first.

When ToS was founded, we created something special - it is completely unlike anywhere else I've been. We all loved it for that. Avatar is something that brought us ALL together, of so many different people. There were, and still are, so many times where the term family is used to describe how it is here. I still think it is appropriate.
ToS is like any family. They don't get on all the time. Conflict in some form is inevitable, but when bonded so closely, it is temporary. Sometimes people become so entrenched in their ideas, in old grievances and in being convinced they are right, that they fail to see what they're doing. I have done this, and I am not the only one.
It's because we are such a family that we can move past it. We do not need to create a schism in the forum, and if anyone feels uncomfortable when they want to talk about something, that needs to be resolved. This won't happen overnight but awareness of it is key. There do not need to be areas where people can feel safe, because that should be the forum.

Remember WHY we are all here. We were all brought together buy a love of Avatar, of Pandora - we may approach it form different perspectives at times, but we all know the feeling we get from it.

Everyone needs to be more careful to avoid hurting other people. Grudges that are left to grow need to be resolved. Equally, people need to avoid provoking others on sensitive topics. EVERYONE needs to be less allowing of flamebaiting, and arguments should be avoided - people can disagree respectfully, but it is not easy. For this reason, arguments on ideological terms should no longer be tolerated, as people have a right to speak.

I'm not going to promise this will be easy. It won't happen overnight, and above all, what it takes is awareness. I don't want to see ToS fail, just as none of you do, so, I'm going to commit to making a change.

I completely apologise for my actions that may have hurt or offended someone. I promise that I will be careful around sensitive topics, and I accept people's apologies in this. I apologise to everyone I've hurt unnecessarily, and I am forgiving all the occasions where I admit I may have been goaded into a response against my better judgement.

Please don't let mine be the only one on this thread. Don't fear responses to your own, just help me bring back ToS as it has been Seen to be
Writing this post has been painful for me, yet it helps. I can feel responsibility, and I am crying as I type this, but they're the same tears as for Avatar - neither entirely sad nor happy, but something deeper than either. That is the feeling from Avatar, which is from ToS too, which should be felt again here.

Oel ngati kameie.
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Old 09-06-2011, 06:27 AM
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All I ever wanted was a single thing worth fighting for. It is here

I don't know exactly what to say about this, except that I don't want petty arguments about ideology to be the end of this place. I am so thankful every day that I met you guys and joined this forum. I love some of you better than some of my real life friends.

Everyone has a right to believe what they want regardless of what anyone else thinks, and discussions about ideology should never be had with the goal of changing someone's erroneous ways. If I ever hurt someone's feelings, I'd like to know about it. I don't want to find out later that I'm one of those new guys who degraded the quality of the place That is why I vote no for the Spirituality subforum.

I haven't been here long, but already, if I were to lose ToS now, it would be a big hole blown through the middle of my life
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  #3  
Old 09-06-2011, 06:33 AM
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New guys degrading the place?

This stuff has been going on for a while now....

This place has been my second home ever since I joined TOS back in the early days when we left AF looking for a better environment..I value each one of you as my own Brothers and Sisters, even if we do share different views..I know we will pull through but we need to respect each other and try to understand why people might want to take their beliefs to a subforum like the environment and technology discussions.
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Last edited by Pa'li Makto; 09-06-2011 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:30 AM
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I second what Pa'li said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HumanNoMore
I completely apologise for my actions that may have hurt or offended someone. I promise that I will be careful around sensitive topics, and I accept people's apologies in this. I apologise to everyone I've hurt unnecessarily, and I am forgiving all the occasions where I admit I may have been goaded into a response against my better judgement.
I am happy to read this. I myself have felt quite offended by some of what you've said in the past, and I am glad that can be put behind us.

So, let's strive for a more tolerant future!
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Old 09-06-2011, 09:33 AM
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Here here!! This is what TOS is about.
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"The man who learns only what others know is as ignorant as if he learns nothing.
The treasures of knowledge are the most rare, and guarded most harshly."
-Chronicle of the First Age


"Try to see the forest through her eyes."

Réalisant mon espoir, Je me lance vers la gloire. Je ne regrette rien. (Making my hope come true, I hurl myself toward glory. I regret nothing.)
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2011, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto View Post
Here here!! This is what TOS is about.
and saph with his KLOUDY BEY
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:27 AM
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Well, I'm going to use an age old truth here.

If people aren't happy, give them what they want.
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:29 AM
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Exactly what I have been saying from the beginning. I completely agree.
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:53 AM
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I think people are making a huge issue about something that's not. I'm not advocating anything offensive towards anyone, but the fact is that people tend disagree, a lot, and if that's offensive to someone, then that's really an unsolvable equation.

Like said, if one has a problem with another, try to sort it our rather than going bananas about it and creating unnecessary drama when it's not needed. If one takes a moment to think and investigate things further, one might find that there's no disagreement or issue to begin with. If people start jumping to wrong conclusions and accusing someone from something they never intended in the first place, it's no wonder things get sour so easily.

It's difficult enough to get two people on similar enough wavelength to understand one another, but when there are also others there to mix things up, then it's next to impossible. So when problems arise, try to take them to private messages, since that's the most efficient way to avoid misunderstandings, even though severe text based limitations still apply.
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:56 AM
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This sounds good to me, nobody likes it when things get heated. I wasn't here at the beginning, but these roots you speak of sound pretty great
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  #11  
Old 09-06-2011, 01:28 PM
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My god... I agree with Aquaplant?!

Well, I don't quite see those four horsemen just yet, so i'll continue.

I would say that too. People can take things very personally when it comes to disagreement, sometimes. And fundamentally, when anyone has their base and their driving force - sometimes seemingly in order to completely obliterate it - they are always going to react to what they percieve as a personal attack. Perhaps the key is not taking things so personally, so as not to build up grudges against people and that's when really, the heat comes in. I'm guilty of this far too often myself, I acknowledge that and apologise to people I have actually triedto go out of my way to hurt or insult - even back-handedly - in these past few days... It was moments of anger, frustration and red-mist. (Three things i'm... let's say... 'not very good with', especially when I feel personally attacked or belittled.)

That said, how many times have we seen this thread before? It's not the frst time it has cropped up. But this time, we should perhaps learn from all of our mistakes and avoid falling back into the trap again. If there's one thing i've noticed about this place (and the Avatar fandom in general) is that it seems to build tension, break, things get messy, and then people make a concious effort to get back on track before slowly but surely losing their way again. Like a cycle. And it actually seems to happen on a 4 or 5 months basis as well.

Just a little observation though.

Hopefully this time, we will all be able to find our paths again and all walk them simultaneously and in peace.
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  #12  
Old 09-06-2011, 02:51 PM
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Toruk Makto, Admin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan View Post
I would say that too. People can take things very personally when it comes to disagreement, sometimes. And fundamentally, when anyone has their base and their driving force - sometimes seemingly in order to completely obliterate it - they are always going to react to what they percieve as a personal attack. Perhaps the key is not taking things so personally, so as not to build up grudges against people and that's when really, the heat comes in. I'm guilty of this far too often myself, I acknowledge that and apologise to people I have actually triedto go out of my way to hurt or insult - even back-handedly - in these past few days... It was moments of anger, frustration and red-mist. (Three things i'm... let's say... 'not very good with', especially when I feel personally attacked or belittled.)
I don't think going 'don't take it personally' will work, because people will. In many cases, it's not something active, it's just a passive shift in their feelings. That's why the expectation of 'debate' (aka argument) in every thread needs to be changed, to how it used to be, when people were happy that these different people had something in common.

Quote:
That said, how many times have we seen this thread before? It's not the frst time it has cropped up. But this time, we should perhaps learn from all of our mistakes and avoid falling back into the trap again. If there's one thing i've noticed about this place (and the Avatar fandom in general) is that it seems to build tension, break, things get messy, and then people make a concious effort to get back on track before slowly but surely losing their way again. Like a cycle. And it actually seems to happen on a 4 or 5 months basis as well.
It requires effort from EVERYONE to do so. It requires the forum be a whole.

Simple words aren't going to change it. It needs action. If someone is afraid to make a thread without a 'safe zone', then that is something deeply wrong. We need to change that, and that needs everyone's cooperation.
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Old 09-06-2011, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andisavatar View Post
and saph with his KLOUDY BEY
And all my despicable plans of Evil.. Dont forget, i am the Future God of the New World

And btw. Good to see that the focus goes back to Community instead of fighting
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:20 PM
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So few replies. This explains so much.
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  #15  
Old 09-06-2011, 07:47 PM
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I think this is a pretty good number for being less than a day old, but I know that's not really what you meant
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