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Old 04-05-2010, 08:44 AM
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Default The environment, am I losing it?

I don't think the world's beauty will last through this millenia, or even within my lifetime. I kind of sob about the idea that I might not see a tree again in the near future because some biggots want some cash. I began to feel this way after hearing that there is going to be massive environmental destruction for a big billion digit number of funds that'll rack in money for the economy. I view New Zealand as the last refuge of beauty in this world. Hearing this created a silent volcano in me, at first I didn't care for hearing this, but now I just blew my top off. Will mankind really learn from it's mistakes? Will capitalism further favor the 1% of America dominate the world and exploit it of it's wonder? Will human parasitic activities cease one day?!

Bring me back to sanity ladies and gentlemen.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:50 AM
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I don't think you are losing it, the future Earth of Avatar is well on it's way. I'd like to be more optimistic, but I really see no chance that humanity is going to stop consuming everything in it's path until it is gone. I spend months every year in the national parks of the US, the last best places in America. Even these highly protected areas are very slowly being damaged, not by development in the parks as such, but by overuse and development just outside the parks.

Unless it somehow becomes profitable to protect nature, it will all disappear some day. I will be there with my dying breath to stop any attempt to remove the protections on the national parks though.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:18 AM
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I think you're exaggerating a bit to yourself that you might not see a tree at one point in your lifetime, that humanity will collapse on itself before you see your day of death...

...Personally (as a Christian), I believe the end of the world will come before anything incredibly damaging to the earth is done. Not that we shouldn't be good stewards, but we also should worry about the environment dying because of humans. We're but a small species on this vast planet. It would take perhaps a thousand more years for us to possibly kill our nature and replace it with what's indicated in "Avatar". Capitalism isn't a bad thing, and isn't what's causing our planet any harm. I also don't believe we're much of a contributing factor to global warming... in fact, I don't believe there is any global warming. (I'm part of the extreme minority of conservative Christian people who liked Avatar.)

I actually don't think we're doing any significant damage to the earth as it is, and I think the notion that we're "destroying the rainforests" is greatly exaggerated as indicated by satelite data and ecologist reports. Even one of the founders of Greenpeace renounced his own claim that the Amazon is being destroyed with no mercy, and says all those claims are based on "bad science"...

...but that's for another debate. Honestly, I don't see how I "cure your insanity" () because I know you'll still believe what you do at the end of the day. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm just saying...

EDIT: And I DON'T think you're insane at all.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 04-05-2010 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:46 AM
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We (humans) do some damage in the short term, but in the long haul I believe nothing we do could completely destroy the environment. In the grand scheme of things we are pretty insignificant to earth. Even long after we're gone other life will continue to flourish, evolve, and go extinct just as it did before man showed up to the party. Whatever damage is done by us will slowly be erased the second we are no longer around.

There will be some places where nature wont be disturbed because it's got nothing of value to big business or industry, and it will be just fine. Even in Avatar there was mention of places on earth that had some form of natural environment left. All life will eventually end on earth, but that's not for another 3-4 billion years assuming we don't get struck by a massive asteroid.
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
I don't think the world's beauty will last through this millenia, or even within my lifetime. I kind of sob about the idea that I might not see a tree again in the near future because some biggots want some cash. I began to feel this way after hearing that there is going to be massive environmental destruction for a big billion digit number of funds that'll rack in money for the economy. I view New Zealand as the last refuge of beauty in this world. Hearing this created a silent volcano in me, at first I didn't care for hearing this, but now I just blew my top off. Will mankind really learn from it's mistakes? Will capitalism further favor the 1% of America dominate the world and exploit it of it's wonder? Will human parasitic activities cease one day?!

Bring me back to sanity ladies and gentlemen.
I'm in the same boat. I believe I'll see the end of the world.. or at least a bunch of _very_ dramatical changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zongtseng View Post
I don't think you are losing it, the future Earth of Avatar is well on it's way. I'd like to be more optimistic, but I really see no chance that humanity is going to stop consuming everything in it's path until it is gone.
That's very true, I See you.


However, I disagree at many points with you, Woodsprite.
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I believe the end of the world will come before anything incredibly damaging to the earth is done.
It depends on what you think is incredibly damaging.. but IMO many incredibly damaging things have already began so long a ago we can't change it anymore. We are all part of a simple system, we work to get money, spend it on all kinds things, travelling, whatever, it's all the same: Most of the things humanity creates end up being piled up on the ground, or drowned straight to the heart of earth, in the oceans. There are so terribly disturbing pictures of all the waste humanity throws away in the nature I don't want to find any to post here, even though they would help proving my point. You all know where to find them.

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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
Capitalism isn't a bad thing, and isn't what's causing our planet any harm.
There's nothing wrong with capitalism itself, it's just the fact that mankind cannot handle it. Just like sports, it's all a big competition, and just like many sportsman and sportswomen, big companies try to find ways to win. Just Instead of doping, these companies can do very horrible things to those who stand on their way..

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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I also don't believe we're much of a contributing factor to global warming...
I'll try not to heavily attack you here, but the rate polar ice is melting is unbeliavable, and I can't find any other reason for it, than global warming.. Did you know that the whole Maledives are about to drown, because the sea is raising so quikly. Imagine the disappointment of those people when the state of Maledives was almost ignored in the failed copenhagen climate conference. Also, I live in Finland, which is under the risk of becoming lifeless bunch of snow, if the Golf sea current changes it's path due to warming..

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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I actually don't think we're doing any significant damage to the earth as it is
I disagree. Earths ecosystem tries to fix itself in many ways (Oil burned in the air warms the climate, but at the same time creates massive clouds, which block sunlight), but I fear humans are changing the world so fast it cant keep up. In the end the effects of our actions will show up after tens of years from now..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helicoradian View Post
We (humans) do some damage in the short term, but in the long haul I believe nothing we do could completely destroy the environment. In the grand scheme of things we are pretty insignificant to earth. Even long after we're gone other life will continue to flourish, evolve, and go extinct just as it did before man showed up to the party. Whatever damage is done by us will slowly be erased the second we are no longer around.
I believe in this too, life evolves where it's possible, and Earth is an excellent example of that. 100 000 years after humanity dies there's for sure, absolutely nothing left of us.

Last edited by Fosus; 04-05-2010 at 10:26 AM.
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  #6  
Old 04-05-2010, 11:51 AM
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I believe this quote from the Bible is misleading.

Gen 1:28 - God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth."

Some, in the whole 200 years of industrialization, considered this as true and themselves as the lords of everything that surrounded them. And this is exactly what we keep making to Earth now. We're 6 billion people and more, get what we want from Earth as if all the resources on Earth were inexhaustible and keep dumping all the plastic bags, cans, inked paper,... like if they disappeared once we stop looking at them.

We believe we're at the top of the world, and value our lives more than any other plant, animal or even certain groups of people (like immigrants, Third worlders,...).

I think that if we keep doing what we want with the hand that feeds us, that eventually will turn against us. No more green, no more clean water, no more breathable air.

Just the crap we've been throwing away.

EDIT: Yes, Earth has regeneration processes that preserves the natural, but they're too slow for our consumption level. After a fire, for example, the woods need 100 years to return to its previous state.

In answer to Woodsprite, the problem is not only climate change, it's the whole damage we make to the environment. Most of the fires aren't lit up by a natural reason, the water that needs serious filtering to be drinkable is because of the garbage thrown to the river years ago (in the 70s nuclear waste was thrown there and there is still cancerous fish), and most of the garbage is put into uncontrolled dumps on India, Africa or the countryside.
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Last edited by ZenitYerkes; 04-05-2010 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 04-05-2010, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helicoradian View Post
We (humans) do some damage in the short term, but in the long haul I believe nothing we do could completely destroy the environment. In the grand scheme of things we are pretty insignificant to earth. Even long after we're gone other life will continue to flourish, evolve, and go extinct just as it did before man showed up to the party. Whatever damage is done by us will slowly be erased the second we are no longer around.

There will be some places where nature wont be disturbed because it's got nothing of value to big business or industry, and it will be just fine. Even in Avatar there was mention of places on earth that had some form of natural environment left. All life will eventually end on earth, but that's not for another 3-4 billion years assuming we don't get struck by a massive asteroid.
^This, it's not the world we need to worry about, it's us, we'll be long gone there or there abouts by the time it's all over.
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Old 04-05-2010, 01:28 PM
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I don't personally think i'll live to see the "end of the world as we know it", I think it will happen after i'm gone, but it does get to me that it still might happen.

If we do alter this planet for the worst though, like others said, nature will teach us a lesson. The planet will not just 'sit back' and take this kind of abuse forever, it will fight back with force sooner or later. (personifying the planet a little there, but you know what I mean ) and if that means the extinction of the human race so be it. We will learn our lesson the hard way. Nature will always live on and will flourish even after we are gone, no matter how that happens.

I'm going to do what I can while i'm here to reduce the destruction though.
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:03 PM
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I agree the world isn't going to suddenly and randomly end. The world will always be here, even if humans die out. When we do, the world will return to its previous state in a few hundred years.
That said, I think that before humans do become extinct (which could happen very soon in my opinion, with things like religion, war and the general destruction of the environment), we could very well manage to render the Earth completely dead
Which is even more sad because it will take so much longer to return after humans are gone as well.
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
the world will return to its previous state in a few hundred years.
Few hundreds of thousands. You're underestimating us!
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  #11  
Old 04-05-2010, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
I don't think the world's beauty will last through this millenia, or even within my lifetime. I kind of sob about the idea that I might not see a tree again in the near future because some biggots want some cash. I began to feel this way after hearing that there is going to be massive environmental destruction for a big billion digit number of funds that'll rack in money for the economy. I view New Zealand as the last refuge of beauty in this world. Hearing this created a silent volcano in me, at first I didn't care for hearing this, but now I just blew my top off.
Three words, ma tsmukan: oel ngati kameie. I can't add much more to what you have said here.

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Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
Will mankind really learn from it's mistakes? Will capitalism further favor the 1% of America dominate the world and exploit it of it's wonder? Will human parasitic activities cease one day?!
Learning from our own errors is a very rare ability, especially these days. If you want to make profit, you just don't care about environmental issues if the laws don't enforce you to do so; and if they do, you will always look for a way to bypass them. This is because your aim is to make more money, not to behave as well as you can.
And it's not just about America, it's about the entire world right now: if we keep spoling our planet, then we will reach a point where there will be no more natural resources and we will fight each other to the death for a litre of clean, drinkable water.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:16 AM
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I tend not to think that way, I'm convinced that if you (and I'm specifically talking about you the reader) think the world is going to hell they you will do something about it. This mentality will spread if we work to spread it.

Don't give up until the last speck of green is gone.
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