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  #16  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:12 PM
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[QUOTE=Clarke;167038]I wasn't aware that biomedical science was powerful enough for it to work like that. I didn't think it was possible to rebuild the brain chemistry that comprehensively.

Remember something Clarke, I was born with a LOT of BOTH sexual genitalia,
so I am not like a lot of people classified as "Transsexuals". This even extends to the Chemistry in my body.
I am not going to get into specifics here, as I don't want to be accused of being a disturbance, so if anyone wants to talk in detail about this, PM, or Email me.
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  #17  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by taylorcraftbc65 View Post
I have been "on the net" since around 1995, and I have seen the term "Troll" thrown around, but I STILL don't know what a "Troll" is. I think that it is someone who argues with everyone about everything, is that it? If not, someone please tell me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) (TL;DR: Someone who tries to be disruptive or draw people into an argument, either against a community, site, specific thread, or individual).

Don't worry about it, don't feel bad for making the thread - after all, it's good to discuss the subject, and I can more than handle any troll, not that ToS ever attracts many anyway (being small, primarily). I think it's a good thread topic to discuss this, because I find it interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
I say that because the same thing happens in humans with everyday things; different parts of the brain have more or less dendritic growth (neurons connecting to each other in response to new facts/things being learned) depending on activity; for example, a third grade elementary school student learning multiplication tables is forming new connections between neurons as they memorize more of the table, and this does equate to an increase in density on a physical level.

Now, if we use this example for Na'vi (and it would likely be applicable, since their brain would have to function similarly to ours) we could conjecture that they would have an extra "partition" or lobe of the brain (perhaps under the hindbrain or at the base of it) to accommodate the extra neural mass and resources needed for tsaheylu. When a pair bond is made, something inside this extra lobe could trigger a series of rapid changes in a certain part of their brain that would strongly reinforce a permanent pair bond.

That conjecture about their neural physiology and the highly monogamistic social structure for their society could be used to explain the permanence of bonding between mated pairs.
It's certainly possible, an explanation based in neuroplasticity is quite plausible, but I'd say there's an emotional component too; of being so close with someone and knowing them so intimately then they would not want to, perhaps even not be able to hurt them any more than they could to themselves.

As for the tsahik, there's nothing saying they have to be female, or even that the olo'eyktan HAS to be mated to them (after all, Jake was still mated with Neytiri even when Tsu'tey accepted him into the Omatikaya again, yet Tsu'tey remained olo'eyktan util his death). It could very well vary by clan, or just be something traditional.
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2012, 03:40 PM
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I think from what i've seen and read about so far, I can say that Na'vi sexuality is a very sacred trait of their race. From the moment I saw Jake and neytiri kiss, I knew how sacread the practice is. With the queues and the whole tsuelu thing, the Na'vi are more responsable about their sexual disires with eachother. It's making love for the sake of actual love, something thats almost unheard of in our society today. I guess that's one of the things that drew me to the na'vi society before because when you find your lover, they will love you.
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:58 PM
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This is one of the many reasons I'd like to see how the na'vi are as a whole, instead of only seeing the Omaticaya and two nearby clans. Only then could we know for sure what is cultural and what is biological.
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Moco Loco View Post
This is one of the many reasons I'd like to see how the na'vi are as a whole, instead of only seeing the Omaticaya and two nearby clans. Only then could we know for sure what is cultural and what is biological.
Well, ma tsmuk, we will either have to wait for James to SHOW us in the upcoming two movies, or we will have to come up with our own little realities in different role playing groups. We have one on LearnNavi where a Samoan pilot for the rebel forces on Pandora that are fighting to drive the last RDA sympathizers of the moon or dead, and a short Na'vi are starting to date. (How's THAT for pushing the envelope)? Bu the way, Trudy is badly burned, but alive in that "Reality".
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  #21  
Old 01-12-2012, 10:13 PM
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Perhaps but I dont think Neytiri wanted to be this way with Tsu-tey. I mean she never seemed pleased to see him. Though I know from the extended version Tsu-tey was angry and said you promised her to me...Though not sure if she would have done her duty or not...
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  #22  
Old 01-12-2012, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
It's certainly possible, an explanation based in neuroplasticity is quite plausible, but I'd say there's an emotional component too; of being so close with someone and knowing them so intimately then they would not want to, perhaps even not be able to hurt them any more than they could to themselves.
What you say is possible in humans, why not the Na'vi? Tee (Ateo Te Syaksyuk) and I have been together for almost nineteen years. We will finish each others sentences, and are absolutely incapable of hurting the other, we might as well drive a stake through our own heart. We can be a mile apart, yet if one of us is in trouble, the other just KNOWS, and comes flying over the hill to see what is wrong.
We are not the only humans that can do this, so it would be a slam dunk for two that are attracted to each other and then enter into neurological tsheylu, would know each other at the single thought level. All thoughts, all past history, all future hopes and dreams. How could you EVER hurt someone like that, and how could you EVER replace them?
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  #23  
Old 01-12-2012, 11:11 PM
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i had a dream that tsu'tey made tsaheylu with meand i was like ohh **** and omfg oh my ****ing god
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  #24  
Old 01-12-2012, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by na'vi hero View Post
i had a dream that tsu'tey made tsaheylu with meand i was like ohh **** and omfg oh my f?*^&% god
Not a fan of Tsu'tey I take it?
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  #25  
Old 01-12-2012, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylorcraftbc65 View Post
What you say is possible in humans, why not the Na'vi? Tee (Ateo Te Syaksyuk) and I have been together for almost nineteen years. We will finish each others sentences, and are absolutely incapable of hurting the other, we might as well drive a stake through our own heart. We can be a mile apart, yet if one of us is in trouble, the other just KNOWS, and comes flying over the hill to see what is wrong.
We are not the only humans that can do this, so it would be a slam dunk for two that are attracted to each other and then enter into neurological tsheylu, would know each other at the single thought level. All thoughts, all past history, all future hopes and dreams. How could you EVER hurt someone like that, and how could you EVER replace them?
Niri Te
It's unlikely that tsaheylu works like that, otherwise Neytiri would have realized what Jake was up to sooner.
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  #26  
Old 01-13-2012, 12:06 AM
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You are RIGHT Clarke, thanks for posting that. Perhaps what it does, is permit the two people to intimately know what the other is thinking, sensing, and feeling at that moment.
Niri Te

Last edited by Niri Te; 01-13-2012 at 12:14 AM.
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  #27  
Old 01-13-2012, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylorcraftbc65 View Post
What you say is possible in humans, why not the Na'vi? Tee (Ateo Te Syaksyuk) and I have been together for almost nineteen years. We will finish each others sentences, and are absolutely incapable of hurting the other, we might as well drive a stake through our own heart. We can be a mile apart, yet if one of us is in trouble, the other just KNOWS, and comes flying over the hill to see what is wrong.
We are not the only humans that can do this, so it would be a slam dunk for two that are attracted to each other and then enter into neurological tsheylu, would know each other at the single thought level. All thoughts, all past history, all future hopes and dreams. How could you EVER hurt someone like that, and how could you EVER replace them?
Niri Te
Exactly.

It isn't impossible in humans, just takes a lot more time and effort than for the Na'vi, who get a biological 'shortcut' to that level of understanding, so to speak.

Clarke, that doesn't mean a direct memory copy, far more likely just an exchange of data more on the level of active thoughts rather the entirety of memory.
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  #28  
Old 01-13-2012, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylorcraftbc65 View Post
Well, ma tsmuk, we will either have to wait for James to SHOW us in the upcoming two movies, or we will have to come up with our own little realities in different role playing groups. We have one on LearnNavi where a Samoan pilot for the rebel forces on Pandora that are fighting to drive the last RDA sympathizers of the moon or dead, and a short Na'vi are starting to date. (How's THAT for pushing the envelope)? Bu the way, Trudy is badly burned, but alive in that "Reality".
Niri Te
Heh, sounds like the LN roleplay board is more active than our own. We're being shown more of Pandora already in the oceans, so I'll keep hoping to see more examples of the na'vi in other places. JC even said we'd see other moons somehow, so I'll stay optimistic about this.
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2012, 08:26 PM
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I think there bond is forever because I actually looked this up and there was a deleted scenes between jake and neytiri where they used tsaheylu during mating
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  #30  
Old 01-18-2012, 12:02 PM
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It was mentioned here that sex (physical mating) is kind of a sacred act to the Na'vi. Well, I kind of doubt that. I totally agree that Tsaheylu (neural/psychological "mating") is a sacred act, because Na'vi are monogamous, they mate for life.

Did you guys never read the Pandorapedia-article about that topic? ^^
Na'vi Mating Practices | Pandorapedia: The Official Guide to Pandora | Own AVATAR on Blu-ray & DVD Now!

To me especially interesting to read about was
Quote:
Some Na’vi elect to abstain from reproduction, despite being sexually active.
(which means that some Na'vi do like many humans do, they have sex/they do Tsaheylu "just for fun", not only for reproducing)
&
Quote:
Na’vi males are typically pair bonded with females, but male-male and female-female permanent bonds are not uncommon.
(When there is even homosexuality, why does a Tsahik always have to be male? Because as mentioned here, the Olo'eyktan of the Ikran-coast-ish-Clan is female)
&
Quote:
Sexual activity outside of the bonded pair is not uncommon, but is almost always associated with fertility rituals and other rites, and has never been reported to lead to a disruption of the pair bond.
(Na'vi mate for live -> are monogamous but practise physical sex with different Na'vi than the one they're "bonded to", wth ^^)
&
Quote:
The actual reproductive act, which resembles human intercourse, follows the bonding ritual, and the partners remain in a “linked state” during and for some time after the sex act itself.
Very interesting and illuminating to me (although I have always supposed most of this info).


Though I really wonder what Na'vi genetalia might look like (biological/anatomical interest, of course No, honestly, just because of that). If you watch the movie you might notice that the spot where human males have got their "wiener" the Na'vi appear to be kind of "flat". (At least Jakes Avatar)
Which makes me ask ... the question just mentioned... (don't wanna tell my detailed thoughts/assumptions on that because I don't know if such concent would be welcome here, due to forum rules [kids inside the forum, no NSFW-stuff] etc.)
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Last edited by Eana Unil; 01-18-2012 at 12:32 PM.
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