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Old 03-16-2010, 10:41 PM
Olo'eyktan
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Default The "Eywa" Theory

This was originally posted here, on Avatar-Forums. I'm reposting it here because it had such wonderful exchanges where I, along with many others, discussed as well as learned quite a few things about what the entity of "Eywa" might necessarily be.

I'm also editing in a few changes to the theory, since later into the thread I found some serious holes. The edited version is very much extended and introduces a new theory I've developed. It'll be separated into two parts.

----------------------------

Please excuse the post length, but....

I've come to a feasible theory about how the "Eywa" entity is NOT A DEITY... at least, not a real god that exists. Sure, it may be as real a deity as any god is to anyone, whether it be Jehovah, Allah, Shiva, Zoroaster, etc. But just to clarify, we're talking about whether or not Eywa is an actual, spiritual goddess that really exists as a god. We already know the Na'vi worship Eywa, so by default "Eywa" is a deity.

To many, "Eywa" is portrayed as a goddess... basically Mother Nature of Pandora, if you will. This is the primary reason for the low rating among many Christian communities across the web, as well as most of the Christian critics.

However, I've developed a theory that might put to ease many Christians' abhorrence of the use of this "goddess worship", as well as a good read for those who still might be a bit hazy on what Eywa might truly be. Although this is completely unrelated to James Cameron and what he might have or might have not intended for what "Eywa" meant as an entity, this has never really been discussed (to my knowledge) as far as the god-factor plays out.

I contend that the "Eywa" entity, in the reality of that world, is not a "goddess" but rather an incredibly evolutionarily advanced plant system that possesses a physical mind and psyche like we do. We must take into account the world of "Avatar" to be the truth, which states that evolution is true, though there are those who'd disagree with it. This is a necessary compromise. Every film contains a "truth" to it, in that "in the world of this movie..." so-and-so is true by default. Like, "In the world of 'Lord of the Rings', the god of Middle Earth exists and is called 'Eru'." Or, "In the world of 'Star Wars', there exists a binding force that Jedis use as their source of power."

Now that the "in the world of" principle has been established, we can clearly understand that certain properties of the "Avatar" world are automatically "fact" when you watch it for what it is. However, not every ideal is totally decreed by the filmmaker. This includes "Eywa." Certain elements and events in the film can be cited to disprove my theory. These include:

1) Dr. Grace Augustine claims that she "sees her", referring to "Eywa", when at the brink of death.

2) Jake Sully prays to "Eywa" by linking his queue to vines of the "Tree of Souls", which Neytiri later confirms his prayers were answered ("Eywa has heard you!").

3) Voices can be heard when linking up with the vines of the trees of voices.

4) Several woodsprites (seeds of the Tree of Souls) "choose" to land on Jake Sully, which Neytiri sees as an omen. Later, the foretelling of his significance is proven true.

5) Jake Sully is actually able to have his consciousness permanently embedded into his avatar body by way of "Eywa".

These are all I can think of at the moment. If there are any other examples, please show me so I can ponder more about this and possibly come up with answers (this is a relatively young theory in my head, so there might be some flaws).


1) Grace was in a state of limited mobility and weakness, and possible hallucination from the nature of the wound and how long it had settled in her. To top it off, the vines of the Tree of Souls planted themselves on (possibly in) her spinal cord to make the transfer of her mind to her avatar body. I, as a mere viewer, have no idea what that must feel like, but I'm assuming she had a moment of incredible ecstasy as the vine attatched itself to her.

The moment she says, "I see her" she was probably experiencing that wonderful feeling, because the camera shows us a view of what she's seeing, and it isn't anything but a bright, white light. That light, combined with her immense sensation from the embedded vines would probably create the illusion of some "goddess-like" entity taking her, though she never actually saw anything. The fact that she calls it a "her" is from hearing the Na'vi calling it by that pronoun, and because she's studied what they believe, she's under the impression of the deity label slapped on "Eywa" because of her current mental near-death state.

2) The fact that "Eywa" heard him might mean exactly that, but not necessarily because Eywa is an actual deity. If Eywa is rather just an extremely biologically advanced plant that can think like humans (possibly read minds when hooked to), then the "hearing of prayers" could just be an reaction of what information it has received. Since everything on Pandora is connected by way of an internal linkage system, including its inhabiting animal life, then this system can be notified and possibly commanded to preserve itself from death. In an article by Erkki Haukioja entitled "Plant defenses and population flucuations of forest defoliators: mechanism-based scenarios" talking about birch tree defense,
Quote:
"Plant defenses against herbivorous insects can be traced to three broad classes of plant compounds, and to the mechanisms which produce variations in their concentrations (Haukioja 2005)... The most recent explanation, still unfamiliar to many field ecologists, is that plants share few broad-scale but versatile defense cascades which orchestrate defenses, including the toxicity of secondary compounds, against numerous biotic and abiotic challenges."

--Page 314
Sounds a bit technical, but in so many words, birch trees possess a defense system where once one of the trees is attacked (preyed upon) by an insect, a chemical compound is released from the birch that the other birches pick up. This "warning scent" causes the other trees to "toughen up" their defenses with a toxin that'll ward off other insects. Two words: self-preservation. This is exactly what the Tree of Souls might've done. The difference is that this tree had connections to all other forms of life on Pandora, so a "warning" might've been sent to all about how the humans were about to destroy them. That's how the ikrans and angtsk knew when and what to attack. Again two words: self-preservation.

3) The voices and communication between the Na'vi and their ancestors can only occur when a link-up between the Na'vi queues and the Tree of Souls (and other trees like it) is made. These vines were said to contain "memories" of the ancestors, not the ancestors themselves. The fact that they could "communicate" with them could be that the naturally occurring response given by the loved one could be what they hear when speaking with them, like the technology depicted in "Superman" and the sequels, where Jor-El has pre-programmed responses to any question, dialogue, or reaction given by his son.

The voices heard from the vines could be like sound bite recordings on any personal computer, only these voices could just be downloaded data from the brains of those who've passed on.

But there are other examples of true "intelligence" occupying the trees. It's true, most of the Na'vi probably die normally like we do, in any situation, whether it be old age, disease, murder, a wound, etc. But some Na'vi (important ones) may die at the foot of a sacred area, where they could have a similar "hook-up" from vine sources, like Grace and Jake had at the Tree of Souls. In some rare cases, Na'vi souls or psyches can be ingested into Eywa, thus making it possible for some Na'vi to virtually live forever, since their minds are supported through this global system of synaptic connections, regulated and controlled through the Tree of Souls (which I'm assuming there's only one that exists). A few have already said "Grace is alive", meaning her mind still functions in the Eywa system.




Continued....
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:42 PM
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....Continued.




4) Like the Tree of Souls, these seeds could also possess a smaller, yet still advanced mindset. They could've landed on Jake because they knew he was a human in an avatar body, probably by the difference in DNA, physical features, and mind. Of course this begs the question: why didn't they land on the other avatars?

Before discussing this further, I assumed it was because of Jake occupying a wide-open area, where they could accumulate on Jake for various reasons such as detection that he isn't a native (DNA difference), or the fact that he isn't new. I also explained how I couldn't figure this particular out later (on Avatar-Forums):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite
Yes, they could each individually have a conscious nature, but then there's the problem of when they're laid to rest with the dead they bury; why would they allow themselves to die? But then, if they're spiritual do they sacrifice themselves for the greater good of Eywa? That's one of the nagging problems that I can't answer in my theory.

I explained before that they might've just landed on Jake because he was in wide-enough space for them to settle, and because their individual "mindsets" recognized Jake as an avatar... But then I watched the movie again and noticed the ending where there are many, many Na'vi sitting all around Jake at the Tree of Souls (ToS) including Neytiri and Mo'at, and recounting the fact that the ToS was in a cliffed-in area (not wide, open space). And yet, there were at least 20 or so woodsprites settling across Jake's real body, and then actually moving to his avatar when his consciousness was being transferred. In this respect, I made a big error in my first post in my assumptions about the woodsprites.
Then I thought of a new reason. My new theory is that the woodsprites land on or surround any newborn native. I assume that everytime a Na'vi baby is born, a woodsprite or two come along and "bless" the birth. When new life sprouts, woodsprites (which probably have a conscious nature) translate this as a "borrowing of energy" from the source tree (the Tree of Souls) and analyze the specimen brought anew to Pandora.

Avatars can also be considered "newborns" once they're exposed to Pandora. Woodsprites never have the chance to meet the new avatars when they're being developed, so my theory is that every avatar has just one meeting with at least one woodsprite. Afterward natives (or avatars) may come into contact with more woodsprites, but not in the same way as the first time, where they specifically land on the newborn to analyze it. The natives of Pandora never witness these events since the avatars all occupy the "Hell's Gate" compound, and never go out into the open where the Na'vi can see. Woodsprites, however, can access the Hell's Gate avatar training area (where Jake was running) where it's closer to the wild area ("out there beyond that fence") The "meeting" may happen as many as 2-3 days after the "newborn" avatar enters the training area, since it's probably a hard place for woodsprites to access. Once out in the field (the wild), the woodsprite encounter never occurs again. Grace has had extensive training in her avatar already, and Norm might've been in the right place at the right time to have his "meeting" sooner than Jake did.

Jake spent a day in his avatar body before going out into the wild. All other avatars had been under close watch and protection in the compound, while Jake got his second day in the field. The rub lies in the fact that he got lost in the wild, and his first meeting finally happened to occur when a native was present. This was probably the first time in Pandoran history when a woodsprite had landed on a "dreamwalker" while another native was present.

Jake also experienced another "birth" when his mind was being transferred to his avatar. Thus explains the woodsprites surrounding Jake in the ending scene.

This "meeting" theory is extremely sketchy and makes a ton of assumptions, but as far as what information we're given about what woodsprites actually are, this theory is, as of now, a working theory.

5) If the Tree of Souls is indeed a biologically advanced form of plant life with a physical mind like us, this feat could easily be explained by just that fact. The tree was "told" by the Na'vi shaman (through a queue link-up) to transfer Jake's consciousness. The tree performed the duty and all was well.


If "Eywa" is not a deity in the actuality of the "Avatar" world, and rather just a creation, then any other god could fit perfectly into this scenario. The fact that neither the Bible, Koran, Vedas, nor any other acclaimed holy book/religious writing denies that there might be some other form of life in the universe further reinforces that the god of any religion could've created Pandora and its Tree of Souls. The only reason why the Na'vi worship this "Eywa" is because this is all they've known their whole lives, and we don't know the origin of Pandora anyway, so the worship of this entity might just be a distortion of what was originally called "the work of the Lord."

I know this is really reaching, and there's no proof that this theory is what James Cameron intended, but as far as we know there's no proof that this isn't true to a certain extent, and it could ease the minds of those who're in conflict with the worldview as they might've seen it.


I also understand this could've been summed in far fewer words, but I just wanted to cover every point the movie made about the subject. Any thoughts about this "Eywa" and whether or not it's really a deity (by deity, meaning an actual, spiritual god-entity that exists)?


-------------

Thoughts?

Last edited by Woodsprite; 08-22-2010 at 05:53 AM. Reason: quote link led to wrong destination; removed
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:55 PM
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The theory of a "Deity" in the form of how we see Eywa is indeed possible.

Grace explains that the trees have around 10^12 connections on Pandora which is 1 Trillion Connections, meaning 1 Trillions Neurons like a brain. Now I can tell you that a human brain has anything between 9-12 million connected neurons, which is about one millionth the amount of Neurons Eywa has. Now in the film you see Norm say that the connections between the trees is electrical based, and incredibly fast, which it would have to be for all the trees to behave as a brain. But again, the average speed of a neuron talking to other neurons is only around 12.9 meters per second, which is fairly slow if you think about it. It is in fact around 28 Miles Per Hour.

Now given the sheer brain power and magnitute of the force of the planet it is conceivable that you imagine that the entire moon of Pandora acts as a stone for this being to cling to and it has secured it's neurons in place, allowing it to control the actions of the trees and other life it brings. The Queues act like access ports to join one more Neuron (A Na'vi, Thanator etc) to the "Hive Mind" that is Eywa. Through the link of the Tsahaylu, Eywa can communicate to the animals and plants to do her will.

In short, think of the trees as Neurons, and collectively they make up a hive mind which forms the conciousness that is Eywa. Curious to think, but the science behind it is all real and all believable.

~Skxawng
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:00 PM
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Wow, that is a lot to digest.

I agree with the basic premise. Eywa is a real tangible entity and not a earth religion like concept of a deity. Eywa has direct effects that can be seen and measured. You can even plug in directly with the queue.

Now Eywa is a global intelligence. It appears that she is everywhere and can is some way see everything. Eywa has been watching the humans ever since they arrived. I 'm sure that the Na'vi in their connected "prayers" have been asking for wisdom on how to interact with the "insane" humans. After watching and feeling Jakes interaction when he got separated because of the Thanator Eywa made a choice that Jake was the "one." Eywa communicated that to Neytiri with the woodsprites in a way she was sure to not misunderstand.

Jake was chosen for his path by Eywa.

Last edited by txen; 03-16-2010 at 11:00 PM. Reason: I can't even spell Eywa...
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:46 AM
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Excellent post, I agree.
With argument 1, I think that that's not necessarily any attribute which would be exclusive to a 'god' anyway, if Eywa was a sentient being then Grace would simply feel connected to her. In a way, it's kind of like mind uploading how the dead's memories remain in Eywa. The same goes for 2, that Eywa is sentient and has enough understanding to realise the scale of the threat, and that understanding was transferred to the animals of Pandora to do what was needed.

As for Na'vi death and living on in Eywa, my theory is that when they connect with a tree such as the Tree of Voices or Souls, their mind, or parts of it, is copied, so for most it's more like a backup than a transfer when they die. Grace's death was different in that her mind was full within the network at the time, so possibly she became a larger or different part of Eywa than most.

The Atokirina, I'm not quite so sure about, due to their lack of obvious visible senses, nervous system or any means of fine control over their movement (which, of course, doesn't mean they DON'T have those, just that it's not obvious)
My theory is that it's part of Eywa's understanding, and each Atokirina is releaseed with unique needs, which it seeks out with some form of sensory capability and is naturally drawn towards.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:38 AM
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Eywa (according to Grace's description) is The Force, from Star Wars.

That is one thing I can say will complete certainty that JC blatantly ripped from another movie.

And it doesn't bother me in the least, I thought it fit perfectly with the movie.

"It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together," could have just as well been from Avatar.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:02 AM
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I'm not so sure. Admittedly, I am not a big SW fan, but I always thought the force was more of a psychic thing (may be wrong there though) as it let you use telekinesis, mind reading, etc. Eywa is certainly possible, it's just connections between lifeforms working in the same way as a neural network.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:22 AM
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I agree with HNM here. The force was more of a thing rather than an entity that could think. The force can be controlled to do both good and evil while Eywa has a will of its own. The force is outside the realm of the natural while Eywa can be connected to directly.
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:16 PM
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Very interesting discussion. I hope, when the sequel comes, that Ewya gets explained. I read somewhere, or someone posted, that Pandora itself could have been created by an advanced race - perhaps a technologically advanced Na'vi race that destroyed itself (like humans did on Earth in 2154), and they created the life on Pandora as a last refuge for their race.

There are a lot of exciting ideas and unaswered questions about Pandora and the Na'vi. I look foward to having them answered in a few years time.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:03 PM
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...ah, what?

Slow down, try phrasing your post better.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:34 PM
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In trying to express what Eywa represents, one must understand that Avatar is a mirror story
that takes its Lore from many native peoples around the world, but many of these lore stories share a common bond. Cameron himself has said that a huge amount of cultural spiritual research went "Under" the films examples and for good reason "we relate to this" or see this from our inner understanding (often deep from our hearts). Avatar presents these examples under a fantasy shell, but its how we relate to what we see when we watch Avatar that might be interesting. Of course every person has their own experience and opinion on this when we watch Avatar "Some" are also watching a "second film" from our inner connected understanding that Mirrors avatars story bridging back to our own World View (With at least some people) as well depending on our own inner memorys on issues ranging from our cultural spiritual understanding and knowledge of world history past and present what we ourselfes "See" in our very real world
I have heard Eywa represented like "The Force" in Star Wars , I hear the term Pandora as a "whole " is a life form with a Central intellgence, a living world, Out of intrest I tryed to find an example that "Reflects" on this "But" comes from Real cultural spiritual understanding
Avatar speaks of a "Bond" betwean the living world "Pandora" (created by James Cameron as an example) In trying to help people "Build a bridge of cultural understanding" and See the World View of others I looked for "real" world examples from
earth that "Might" help explain "Eywa" that is "why" I refrenced The Kogi people of Columbia
because what they are trying to do "Mirrors" for "real" what Avatar speaks on, First let first me answer who the Kogi are "The Kogi are desendents of the Tairona people going back over a thousand years "But" they are very unique among native peoples "They have never been colonised or infulenced by outside forces" this is very rare, they mantain there orignal culture
The Kogi are very frightened by what they see is happeing to our world and the Kogi by there cultural accountabily feel it nessary to reach out and show us exactly what "We cant see"
the Kogi people consider it there duty to activly protect and heal the living world , They call our living world "Aluna" which means "The mind inside nature" one could represent "Eywa" as the "Mind inside Pandora's living natural world" but it's what the Kogi "See" that has science so intrested and for "some" it resonates with what Avatar spoke on I will leave it to your own opinions, The example they wish to show us could "reflect on Eywa from Avatar The filmmaker takes questions at the end and mentions just how powerful "Avatar" was in helping people
understand if one is not intrested in looking at real world examples but "only" Eywa in Avatar as a fictional example on the Avatar universe this will not be of intrest , the filmmaker
Alan Ereria speaks on this issue , the main question is will our people "Listen"
Global Spirit Chat | Link TV

I would also like to define Aluna "Aluna is" " Pure thought, memory, spirit, mind , Soul, imagination.
The entity out of which all things are born, In which everything is "Connected".

In Aluna there is the memory of the past and the potential for the future

"In mirroring Avatar's Eywa"
"Aluna forms the "Bridge" betwean the universe and the human spirit"
(From the creation myth of the Kogi of Columbia)
I was questioned about the phrasing of my last post on the Kogi what issues are confusing?

Last edited by allroock123; 09-13-2012 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:07 AM
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I'm not really sure how what you're saying is related to Eywa. I would say the Kogi show much more of an interest in the effects of modern culture than any other tribes in relative isolation, but aside from "the na'vi also think about the condition of their environment", I can't draw any parallels here. It looks like a post may have been deleted, maybe I'm missing something.
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:42 PM
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The Kogi And The Na'vi "share a number of posably intresting connections , If we are focusing on Only Eywa from Avatar and not on what might have been the insight behind
Eywa in our real world , then I am off topic, I was simply saying the real world Kogi and there Cultural Lore could be used to help understand "Eywa" from Avatar the Kogi share A very deep understanding if the interconnection of all living beings, that "Mirrors" Avatar " Indigenous | Mediacology by Antonio Lopez " what questions are you confused about ?

Last edited by allroock123; 09-18-2012 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:30 AM
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Over at the AF site in a blog post, I proposed the theory that Eywa is a sentient being. “Eywa is a single, planet-encompassing sentient organism that ‘…cannot be reduced to human concepts, ideas or images.’” It is my belief that JC had as the canvas for Avatar a background where the entire movie was just fluff covering the true main character, Eywa. My argument was centered on a book written by Stanislaw Lem called “Solaris” which was later a movie project that Cameron worked on. It was about a planet where the surrounding ocean was actually a sentient being. This “character” was unimaginable to the human characters yet was the prime player. In Avatar, we have the same science fiction concept playing out…we see the love story and the action on the screen, but what is really going on? Grace knew at the end, we may in the coming sequels.

Last edited by Porthos1; 02-21-2013 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:02 PM
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Eywa is what i want in a benevolent deity, not the religious earth god who drowned the entire planet in water, including all innocent inhabitants of the Natural World, to kill all but eight of humanity because of lack of 'morality' and who continues to threaten the sword of damoclese by destroying this planet in fire after an apocalypse and burning most of humanity forever in some interdimensional lake of hades. geez. i need a drink.
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