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Old 11-06-2010, 05:03 AM
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Default Linked scenes and mirror scenes

I have noticed in Avatar that there are a few scenes that relate to each other or where there is a mirror image. These scenes usually serve to show a similarity between to different objects and can often be ironic. Here are the ones I have spotted,

The coffin and the link unit
When Jake speaks of his brother's death we see the coffin go into the incinerator.

But when we see Jake's link unit start up the scene looks identical to the coffin scene. The metal case going into the wall looks exactly like the coffin going into the incinerator.

Obviously this shows a similarity between the two event. One life ends. Another begins.

The wheelchair and the Amp Suit
When Quaritch tells Jake he can have his legs back, it is like a mirror image. Both in the same situation. Both are sitting in machines which negates thefull use of their real legs. It is as if Quaritch has brought himself to the same condidtion as Jake and disabled himself through technology.

It is also ironic that Quaritch talks about Jake getting his real legs back, when quaritch is actually not using his own legs at the time.

The Mud Scene

In the control room Selfridge says that the Na'vi like mud.

But shortly afterwards, we see Jake fall off the Direhorse and land in a pile of mud. And then we see Tsu-Tey mocking Jake as he happily wipes the mud on his own face and even puts it in his mouth like a child.

So despite what Selfridge says, it is actually jake who shows himself to like mud.So it is ironic.

The web scenes

Sometimes we see scenes of interconnected webs.

When Trudy's Samson overflies Pandora after escaping Hell's Gate, we see webb shapes in the countryside below.

When the Na'vi welcome Jake as one of the people, the all lonk together forming a web shape. When the Na'vi chant in front on the Tree of Souls, they also form a web shape.

And when the sould transference at the tree of souls takes place, the roots of the tree also form an intricate web shape.

This obviously suggests interconnectedness. It would not surprise me if there are other web scenes in the movie.

Has anyone else noticed thing like this?
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:11 AM
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Yeah, I noticed many of these things. They really add to the story and feel of the movie.

But I don't think that Jake was putting mud in his mouth. I figured he had got like a piece of grass or stem stuck on his tongue and he was reaching to get it off.
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Fighter-of-Wars View Post
But I don't think that Jake was putting mud in his mouth. I figured he had got like a piece of grass or stem stuck on his tongue and he was reaching to get it off.
You, may be right. But it did look like he was eating mud, even though he was trying to get rid of it. And it certainly contrasted with the scene where Selfrige says.."They like mud".
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neytirifanboy View Post
The Mud Scene

In the control room Selfridge says that the Na'vi like mud.

But shortly afterwards, we see Jake fall off the Direhorse and land in a pile of mud. And then we see Tsu-Tey mocking Jake as he happily wipes the mud on his own face and even puts it in his mouth like a child.

So despite what Selfridge says, it is actually jake who shows himself to like mud.So it is ironic.

I don't know about all that. Jake was actually trying to wipe the mud OFF. And he wasn't putting it in his mouth, I think he got some of it in his mouth and was getting it out. I thought that was obvious. The way it looked like he was picking something out of his mouth or off of his tounge.
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:05 AM
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...No, Selfridge was being sarcastic in that the Na'vi didn't want anything to do with human technology, and thus reverted to traveling without roads ("We give 'em roads, but no. They like mud.")


As for the analysis... to be honest, it looks like a whole bunch of coinsidence. I didn't see any of that in the movie, and I still don't see it making sense.

Quaritch was in the AMP suit talking to Jake just as he was about to leave. I thought the shot between Jake and Quaritch (where they're both facing each other) was a tribute to the fact that Jake was such a small guy compared to the might of Quaritch. Jake was just a beginner marine rookie guy who'd never experienced Pandora before, and the second scene of Quaritch has him lifting a hundred pounds in the first shot. The scene (I thought) was supposed to let us know how tough and experienced Quaritch was, thus giving us more reason to note how hard it'd be to take him down (if we were to turn against him later, which we did of course).

The coffin thing... meh. Similar shots with the lid going down over Tom's body; didn't seem like a parallel to me. Just looked like similar camera angles.

As for the "web" outlook, again: coinsidence. At least... to me it seemed that way. I don't know which scene you refer to with the countryside possessing web shapes. I think the joining of hands/touching of hands on shoulders was a common thing for the Na'vi to do when conducting any sacred or important ceremony. The roots of the Tree of Souls bonded with Grace and Jake in large clumps of vines, which seems natural, considering how trees have many roots, as do most woody plants.


...That's what I think about it all; I think you're looking too far into it. The examples you gave didn't look like parallels to me.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 11-06-2010 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
...No, Selfridge was being sarcastic in that the Na'vi didn't want anything to do with human technology, and thus reverted to traveling without roads ("We give 'em roads, but no. They like mud.")


As for the analysis... to be honest, it looks like a whole bunch of coinsidence. I didn't see any of that in the movie, and I still don't see it making sense.

Quaritch was in the AMP suit talking to Jake just as he was about to leave. I thought the shot between Jake and Quaritch (where they're both facing each other) was a tribute to the fact that Jake was such a small guy compared to the might of Quaritch. Jake was just a beginner marine rookie guy who'd never experienced Pandora before, and the second scene of Quaritch has him lifting a hundred pounds in the first shot. The scene (I thought) was supposed to let us know how tough and experienced Quaritch was, thus giving us more reason to note how hard it'd be to take him down (if we were to turn against him later, which we did of course).

The coffin thing... meh. Similar shots with the lid going down over Tom's body; didn't seem like a parallel to me. Just looked like similar camera angles.

As for the "web" outlook, again: coinsidence. At least... to me it seemed that way. I don't know which scene you refer to with the countryside possessing web shapes. I think the joining of hands/touching of hands on shoulders was a common thing for the Na'vi to do when conducting any sacred or important ceremony. The roots of the Tree of Souls bonded with Grace and Jake in large clumps of vines, which seems natural, considering how trees have many roots, as do most woody plants.


...That's what I think about it all; I think you're looking too far into it. The examples you gave didn't look like parallels to me.
Yeah I thought pretty much all the same things.

I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to bring negativity to your thread, but I could help think the same things as in the post I quoted.
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:02 PM
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EDITED POST.

I actually find it interesting that others don't see the same as me in these scenes. It just shows that we all focus on and enjoy different things in the movie.

Anyway, I respect your opinions, but I still see things the way I explained. At least for now.

I actually don't think it matters if scenes look the same because of coincidence. Just because it is a conicidence does not mean that the message doesn't exisit or in fact was not intended. And even if some were a coincidence, I sometimes think that artists, including film directors can send messages subliminally that they didn't even know existed. That is what good art does. It can create emotions and thoughts that can be unpredictable.

The only scene i would defend more strongly is the coffin scene. Why did they make the link unit so like a coffin. They could have made the units any way they want. The Drivers could have been standing up or floating in a tank, or even upside down, or even curled in a ball like a feotus. But no, it looked exactly like a coffin going into an incererator. So my own view, is that this is intended.

But if anyone sees it differently and prefers to have a different perspective, then so they should.

But other than that, I woudn't mind hearing of other scenes that may be ironic or similar to otherscenes and perhaps send another message from those who are interested in this sort of thing. Because it interests me.

Last edited by neytirifanboy; 11-06-2010 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:54 PM
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I think you can over analyse these things (e.g. the web shape and possibly the scene with Quaritch), but others are valid, in particular where Jake says 'everything's backwards now, like out there is the true world and in here is the dream' together with 'sooner or later you always have to wake up', or how the film starts with his eyes opening as a human and ends with them opening as a Na'vi.
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
I think you can over analyse these things (e.g. the web shape and possibly the scene with Quaritch), but others are valid, in particular where Jake says 'everything's backwards now, like out there is the true world and in here is the dream' together with 'sooner or later you always have to wake up', or how the film starts with his eyes opening as a human and ends with them opening as a Na'vi.
My view is that a movie can't be over or under analysed on an objective level. As long as the participants enjoy the discussion and want to exhange views. Of course on a subjective level, it is different.

Personally, analysing is something I enjoy doing. And I feel it is the right place to raise this conversation as we are on an avatar forum. I am not trying to force any virews, I am just putting different perspectives forward. People can either accept them or not. And indeed express their own views.

But the two scenes you mention are good examples. There is an obvious link (to me at least) between the last and first scene.

And when Jake talks about realities seeming to shift. Well I think everyone who saw and loved Avatar felt that themselves dufing the movie. In effect it was a mirror image of what some people felt in the cinema.
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Old 11-06-2010, 04:48 PM
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Neytirifanboy, I would say that I saw a lot of those 'mirroring's' as well in the movie.

I think for me it 'heightened' my appreciation of Cameron's screen writing and film making skills, because it was included, but also because it was done both overtly and subtlety. It was there throughout, or at least especially in the beginning half of the movie, not just to set up the plot, but to I think 'enhance' the awakening process of learning to 'see'. How many threads or posts were on "OH .. did you notice this?" or "On subsequent viewings what did you notice that you had missed the first time?", etc. In other words, did Cameron use the technique to accomplish ^this, would be another whole discussion under this thread as well~

One that comes to mind is the whole difference between the 'Avatar' and the "Na'vi' hands, fingers, eyebrows, etc. Cameron definitely uses the mirroring technique there~
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:46 PM
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I'd say this fall into the Symbolism category. I don't think I could begin to count the instances. There are no coincidences in a film. They are written into the script with intent. While I do agree with HNM's over analysis point, I don't think that applies here. Well at least not yet.

In my view the movie starts with two of these. The very first is the eye opening as already described. The second occurs buy a few seconds later when the two water droplets merge to become one. It just keeps going from then on.
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:03 PM
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In my view the movie starts with two of these. The very first is the eye opening as already described. The second occurs buy a few seconds later when the two water droplets merge to become one. It just keeps going from then on.
Thanks. Yes it is about symbolism. The whole movie is full of symbolism, as most good movies are.

What would you say is the symbolism of the water droplets? Does it mean two worlds coming together? Or do you have another meaning.
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:43 AM
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I'm not saying your views are absolutely wrong or anything. You might be straight on the mark with 'em. But to me, though, the things you pointed out just looked like coinsidence.
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:59 AM
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I'm not saying your views are absolutely wrong or anything. You might be straight on the mark with 'em. But to me, though, the things you pointed out just looked like coinsidence.
To be honest, I have no idea if I am right or not. Just like everyone else.

But that's why I enjoy discussing these thing. I find it interesting that you believe thay are probably coincidences while I do not. But thatdoesn't stop us liking the movie in our own way.

But really I appreciate your view. There was a time when I thought that I was right and everyone else was wrong. But now I see that the world is just a myriad of views and opinions. The internat, this forum and even this thread help me understand this.
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:17 AM
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To be honest, only James Cameron himself knows as he wrote the script. We can only guess as to what sort of meaning JC had in mind for particular things.

I like your analysis of the first two -- the parallels between the incinerator and link machines, Jake's wheelchair and AMP suits; the others, not so much.

The film is all about how "one life ends and another life begins." The contrast between the life that ended and the life that begins is very stark. Tom was a scientist, Jake a marine. Tom could walk, Jake was paralyzed. The way the box retracts inside the incinerator just as the link unit retracts inside the wall is too much to be a coincidence imho.

As for the second instance, it may be a coincidence (and proabrably is) but after you pointed it out, I cannot help but notice the slight irony in Quaritch offering Jake a chance to regain his real legs while standing inside an AMP suit.
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