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Old 12-07-2010, 02:23 AM
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Default Canon and non-canon scenes?

I haven't watched the CE cut just yet, but I have viewed some of the unfinished scenes. With so much content, what should be considered canon and what shouldn't?

I feel that the CE cut of the movie can be considered canon (the sturmbeest hunt, Sylwanin), but the unfinished scenes (Norm and Trudy relationship) aren't. Any other opinions?
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:36 AM
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Everything is originally from Cameron's mind. So... anything added would/could be considered canon. It's not like this is LotR.
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:43 AM
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My thoughts are very simple - the original theatrical release?

Canon.

Everything else?

Optional canon, to be used or not used as the fan sees fit. (And this is not just in Avatar fandom, but other fandoms I'm in and have been in).

Which means in my own canon? Absolutely are Trudy and Norm shagging, and of course Neytiri had an older sister...but that comment about the Na'vi not knowing how to lie? That I ignore, because it makes little sense and has unfortunate implications and I personally dislike it. And it was in a deleted scene, so Cameron didn't rate it important enough to include. So, yeah. Basically, original theatrical release? Canon. Everything else? Semi-canon, optional canon, can-be-ignored canon.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:09 AM
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but that comment about the Na'vi not knowing how to lie? That I ignore, because it makes little sense and has unfortunate implications and I personally dislike it.
Absolutely agree. Not too keen on that 'when you see nothing' bit either. Too Zen.

I think we'll find out what can be considered canon when the novel is released.

Last edited by ISV Venture Star; 12-07-2010 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:29 AM
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Absolutely agree. Not too keen on that 'when you see nothing' bit either. Too Zen.
...oh, AWESOME, someone in fandom agrees with me on the lying thing. *beams* And my private opinion on the 'when you see nothing' comment is that Neytiri is messing with Jake, slightly. She does have a sense of humour, after all.

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Originally Posted by ISV Venture Star View Post
I think we'll find out what can be considered canon when the novel is released.
Oh. Yes. The novel. *shrugs* I'm standing by my comment of the original theatrical release, and treating the novel as any other novelization - i.e., it's semi-canon still, optional-canon. I mean, it'll be useful for world-building and fic-writing and all of that, but I'm still regarding it as semi-canon only, like the various official Avatar games.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:40 AM
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I mean, it'll be useful for world-building and fic-writing and all of that, but I'm still regarding it as semi-canon only, like the various official Avatar games.
I don't consider the games canon at all.

To me, canon consists of the TE/SE/CE and any novels that JC writes set in the Avatar universe. Anything direct from his brain and given a wide release.

Deleted & alternative scenes, the ASG, Pandorapedia and the content of the 1995 scriptment and 2007 script: semi/optional canon. Stuff that was either not completed or was put together by underlings.

Everything else: non canon.

Last edited by ISV Venture Star; 12-07-2010 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 04:30 PM
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I'm with ISV... anything that comes from Cameron's brain that he wanted to put on film or paper is canon. The game does not count simply because it has several plot points that interfere with the set story. (i.e. the character you play can ride a Toruk..among other things.)

Anxiously awaiting news of the novel... it'll be the first recreational book I will read in many years.
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:23 PM
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I think any scene they made is canon, as opposed to things that were in the script but never made.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:09 PM
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I consider the deleted scenes canon, since they don't contradict with the movie. There is only one contradicting deleted scene where the 2nd valkyrie shuttle is seen in the battle (flying on the port side of the first one). The ASG could also considered to be canon, but the game not, since the storyline is not fixed and even the gender of characters can be selected (some things like the existence of the Tipani clan or certain locations could still be considered canon. The script is not fully canon, since there are differences to the movie.
The official novel by JC would be canon, but other novels by different authors not (Star Trek novels are not canon, there are many of them).
The canonicity of the deleted scenes has to be reconsidered when the novel and sequel comes out (if, e.g. Neytiri is indeed pregnant).
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:47 PM
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I've always referred to the 880 script as canon. It's kind of where we got most of the early background information.

Some of the deleted scenes were mirrors of what happened in the script. Others were not. Guess we'll just have to wait for further details from JC (as always).
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:57 PM
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...The novel is a prequel.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:01 AM
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The Project 880 script is too different, even character names are wrong.

The other script on the other hand, I consider canon as long as it doesn't directly contradict anything in the actual film (or deleted scenes).
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:16 AM
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Since we're never going to agree on everything, I think each individual will have to decide what's canon. For example, I wrote some fan fiction early on which touched on stuff that was later covered by by the deleted scenes. In a few cases I nailed it exactly right--so that's canon. Other places I was off--so that's not canon Simple, huh?
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
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Since we're never going to agree on everything, I think each individual will have to decide what's canon.
Exactly. Which is, I think, very lovely and freeing for those of us who write, at least. And I don't think we all SHOULD decide, either.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
The Project 880 script is too different, even character names are wrong.
But there are little bits and pieces in it which might conceivably fit into the events of the film, although with different names and in a slightly different narrative context.
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