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Old 03-01-2011, 04:02 AM
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Default So you chose to stay, Now what?

After the battle for the Tree of Souls was won and the humans were forced to leave Pandora, a few opted to stay but even fewer were chosen. Among the few who did stay, what about those who do not have avatars? I am quite certain that they can easily survive by living in Hell's Gate; however, to put things quite blunty, life would simply suck.

Being a human without an avatar would be a very lonely experience. You would be confined mainly to the base. It would feel eerie just living in such a huge place thats virtually empty. Most of them are scientists but they can't just venture out on their own without protection to study plant or wildlife. Now granted, the Navi could visit them but they can't visit everyday. At first things would be seem fine but then as the months rolled by and a year passed, things would become very dull almost to the point of driving someone crazy.

I can see it now: Max is walking to hometree for a visit along with some other Navi. There is a fallen tree in the way. All of the Navi easily jump over but Max, being a lot smaller, struggles to climb over it. He has to be pulled over and it still takes considerable effort because they have to do it gently. By the time they finally arrive, poor Max is completely out of breath.

Given the circumstances, I have to wonder if staying as a human without an avatar would be a pleasant experience.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:16 AM
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The Na'vi could always lift Max, he's about the size of their children.

More seriously, I think it'd be...probably not so fun to be on Pandora under those conditions. Although a lot would also depend on how many sans Avatars there are still there (this would count a lot towards mental health, having someone else around who 'gets it'), but trying to stay occupied would be a challenge.

I personally saw a lot of experiments and science being done, to keep themselves busy, along with all the maintenance and chores needed to keep themselves alive.

(Of course, then the next ISV Venture Star arrives which, depending on what is done then, could make things interesting.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:17 AM
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I absolutely agree... life would be very tough and rather lonely. Even if you do have an avatar, you're still essentially an alien on a strange moon and an outsider to the Na'vi, especially at the beginning. You'd be one of only a handful of humans for light-years around. And it would be even worse if you were like Max and didn't have an avatar at all.

And dammit... I really need to update "Last Train Home."
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You came back
How do you make up after you've done the unforgivable? Jake and Neytiri have a conversation in the wake of Hometree's destruction, during their first real moment alone following his return as Toruk Makto.

The Last Train Home
Fourteen years after the war, a lone spaceship appears in the sky. The former members of the Avatar program watch its approach expecting the worst, fearing for their adopted home. Then the ship lands. And suddenly, nothing makes sense anymore.

Five seconds too late
This is a different kind of Jake/Neytiri romance, the story that would've unfolded had she been delayed for just five seconds while trying to reach him following the fight with Quaritch.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:10 AM
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Well think about it. Right now I'm sure half of us would be willing to step right into Max's shoes. Yeah, it would be a dangerous and boring life, but not to such an extreme. There is always scientific study to do, tribal ceremonies, the whole complex to do whatever you wanted to do. You could make a lot of Na'vi friends and hang out with them, learn to hunt...

...sure I would rather go to Pandora with an Avatar, but still it would be an adventure without one as well for all of the people that stayed behind.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:14 AM
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I have a feeling that if I were a human on Pandora that it would eventually kill me. I would be unable to sit inside all the time. I would have to go outside, and on Pandora that leads to a short life. Remember Quaritch's face and those nice claw marks?

That said I have a feeling that it would have to be better than going back to a super overcrowded Earth. As Jake says "there is no green there." That alone would keep me there.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:20 AM
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Boring? Are you kidding me?!

I would spend all day catching bugs and lizards and things to have a chance to observe and study them some more. OwO

The Thanators and Viperwolves are just a occupational hazard. :D

The Na'vi would probably be mad if I kept what I caught, though... :<
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Aketuan View Post
Well think about it. Right now I'm sure half of us would be willing to step right into Max's shoes. Yeah, it would be a dangerous and boring life, but not to such an extreme. There is always scientific study to do, tribal ceremonies, the whole complex to do whatever you wanted to do. You could make a lot of Na'vi friends and hang out with them, learn to hunt...

...sure I would rather go to Pandora with an Avatar, but still it would be an adventure without one as well for all of the people that stayed behind.
I'm not seeing the logic, actually. Learning to hunt? Doing stuff around the complex? Ceremonies? All that is short-lived. What would you do after you've done all on the to-do list? It'd be boring as hell without an avatar, let alone dangerous (as you mentioned). There'd be no point in staying. It might be fun for a while, but after "a while" ends, there's nothing else to do but "hang out".

So no, I wouldn't want to be in Max's shoes any day. There's no point or purpose in staying, and even scientific discoveries would be meaningless, because the people you have to share them with have left, and no longer care.


The only possible way to make some sort of long-run purpose to your stay would be to grow an avatar for yourself. It'll take time, effort, and you'll be frustrated half the way through, but there's also the prospect of becoming "one of the people" when the project is done. The pay-off. That's the ultimate goal.

...But staying on Pandora as a human for the rest of your life will be boring as hell. Even scientific discovery will mean absolutely nothing.

Last edited by Woodsprite; 03-01-2011 at 06:01 AM.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:20 AM
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This is a question that's been touched on by a number of fanfic writers, myself included.

Basically, it comes down to this: how long can the remaining humans keep and maintain Hell's Gate before it starts falling apart?

If they can maintain it "indefinitely" (i.e., a very, very long time) then yes, they could live there for quite a while before they'd have to find somewhere else to live.

But, as this thread suggests, life could get boring in the meantime. They can do all the research they want, but they can't really share it with anyone else and (at leas for the short term) there will be no one else around for them to share it with on Pandora.

On the other hand ...

They might be able to find some interesting answers to the questions that Grace and the others had been investigating before the rest of the humans got kicked off Pandora, now that they have the time/focus to study those questions.

But, on the gripping hand ...

I am one of those who believe that life for Max, Norm, and the rest will not be very fruitful on Pandora because sooner or later (probably a lot sooner) Hell's Gate will start falling apart. Things will start to break down, critical systems will start to malfunction, machinery will start to fail, and eventually, everything will cascade and that will be the end of Hell's Gate.

(think about the series "Life After People" to get an idea of what I am talking about)

My guess is that there are not enough people left at Hell's Gate to keep it functioning "indefinitely" and as such, those that are left probably do not have the skill set necessary to keep all the critical systems functioning.

And when Hell's Gate is no longer functional, the humans remaining on Pandora are stuck between a rock and a hard place indeed.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsprite View Post
I'm not seeing the logic, actually. Learning to hunt? Doing stuff around the complex? Ceremonies? All that is short-lived. What would you do after you've done all on the to-do list? It'd be boring as hell without an avatar, let alone dangerous (as you mentioned). There'd be no point in staying. It might be fun for a while, but after "a while" ends, there's nothing else to do but "hang out".

So no, I wouldn't want to be in Max's shoes any day. There's no point or purpose in staying, and even scientific discoveries would be meaningless, because the people you have to share them with have left, and no longer care.


The only possible way to make some sort of long-run purpose to your stay would be to grow an avatar for yourself. It'll take time, effort, and you'll be frustrated half the way through, but there's also the prospect of becoming "one of the people" when the project is done. The pay-off. That's the ultimate goal.

...But staying on Pandora as a human for the rest of your life will be boring as hell. Even scientific discovery will mean absolutely nothing.
I see what you are saying, in that you need goals and things to work for to make your life worthwhile and not boring, things that aren't "short-lived", but I think you can still find those things in this situation.

For example: you spend the first 1/5 of your life in education preparing you for the next 4/5, during which you spend most of your time working to climb your way "up the ladder" and be successful.

On Pandora, you no longer need to work like that, but you can achieve your goals and grow as a person, making friends and watching and being a part of developing relationships and having a whole new existence to explore. Yes, on a basic level after a while things would get a little boring, but don't things get boring here as well. After working the same job for years, you would get bored and change things up, maybe move to a new job. You do not have that option on Pandora and that might be the reason things get boring, but overall, isn't learning to co-exist with a new species and learning a new way of life on a distant planet worthwhile?

EDIT: about the Hell's Gate falling apart, I think it could be maintained for a while at least, but it does pose an issue...
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:53 AM
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I think some people are misunderstanding something...

If you consider the size of Hell's Gate, and the fact that at least 5-10 people (the avatar drivers) were allowed to stay, then there had to have been other people who were allowed to stay based on need; mechanics, electricians, computer specialists, various technicians, etc. Also, they have this:

Hell's Gate - James Cameron's Avatar Wiki - Sam Worthington, Zoe Saldana

(EDIT: Uh, scroll down towards the bottom until you see "Stereolithography Plant".)

So theoretically, with the right technicians and support staff, they could keep the place running for a long time. I'm not sure it would make sense for just Max, Norm and the Avatar team to stay there anyway; they would never, ever be able to keep up with the maintenance that would be needed to keep things going. Jake even says something at the end about "keeping the lights on" at Hell's Gate, which could allude to this scenario. Personally, I'd be much more worried about the RDA coming back with improved war machines and weapons. That would be very bad. D:

As for science, I would go collect insects and stuff for fun; many scientists involved in life science conduct their studies out of personal interest, so it would depend on the person and the branch of science that they were interested in.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:33 AM
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As far as I know. (or at least what I believe) Is the happy sunshine alternative that they can grow avatars.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:38 AM
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Don't forget, they are still on Pandora. There is EVERYTHING to do and see.
Much of Hell's Gate can be abandoned (e.g. all the mining related infrastructure , the vehicle bays, etc) as it is no longer at all needed. All they would need would be the inhabitable areas and he science buildings. Anyway, it's not like everything would be constantly failing - it's a base for ~400 people, now with maybe 20-30 people living there. It's nowhere near capacity.

Hell's Gate is only a small place, and keeping the parts that they need in order to live working wouldn't be as hard as it might seem. In addition, they will want to continue what they were there for - learning more, about Pandora, the plants and animals, the network, and he Na'vi themselves. In addition, all the communications are at Hell's Gate and it makes sense to know what is happening (and as I have mentioned before, they would need to tell people on Earth what has happened in order for the RDA to lose their contract - this could hopefullyl eventually being in a new era of human cooperation on Pandora - no mining, but learning more and good relations with the Na'vi. The people who stay will be extremely important in that. In most fanfic I've read, the Na'vi and the avatars who became Na'vi have regular contact with them, both at Hell's Gate and Hometree.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:28 PM
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The scientists could return to Earth with the next ISV. They could take their scientific results, maybe they find a cure for Earth's environment.
I think at least some of the scientists have family, and most of them have friends, that they want to return to Earth later.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
Boring? Are you kidding me?!

I would spend all day catching bugs and lizards and things to have a chance to observe and study them some more. OwO

The Thanators and Viperwolves are just a occupational hazard.

The Na'vi would probably be mad if I kept what I caught, though... :<
Heh. The bugs and lizards and things are "occupational hazards" too.

You are not in Kansas anymore, ladies and gentlemen.
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Selected writings:

You came back
How do you make up after you've done the unforgivable? Jake and Neytiri have a conversation in the wake of Hometree's destruction, during their first real moment alone following his return as Toruk Makto.

The Last Train Home
Fourteen years after the war, a lone spaceship appears in the sky. The former members of the Avatar program watch its approach expecting the worst, fearing for their adopted home. Then the ship lands. And suddenly, nothing makes sense anymore.

Five seconds too late
This is a different kind of Jake/Neytiri romance, the story that would've unfolded had she been delayed for just five seconds while trying to reach him following the fight with Quaritch.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sothis View Post
Heh. The bugs and lizards and things are "occupational hazards" too.

You are not in Kansas anymore, ladies and gentlemen.
You don't know me very well, do you? :D

Leather gloves solve most of those problems.

I would probably be interested in setting up an "arachnoid" terrarium, but I wouldn't try that with stingbats. It's a bit difficult to justify putting a free-roaming aerial animal in a tank/aviary versus a relatively small terrestrial invertebrate.

And I wouldn't want to try to keep living hellfire wasps anyway. That's what the alcohol is for. D:
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