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Old 03-08-2011, 04:54 AM
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Ikran Makto
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One of the things that I have always wondered about is how a human inside is affected. Does the person inside the link machine voluntarily go to sleep or does the machine automatically "knock you out?" In the duel against Quaritch, Jake's link was interrupted even though his avatar was fully wide awake. Yet, he was able to take a breath and still continue the link. It seems to indicate the machine doesn't just simply knock you out but on the other hand, a link can also be terminated by going to sleep, or pressing a simple button on the control panel.

In fact, one of the more interesting questions I've pondered about is What happens if you want to end a link but can't fall asleep? (insomnia, too much coffee, etc) Are you just stuck?

Any thoughts?

Last edited by Banefull; 03-08-2011 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:32 AM
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"Relax and let your mind go blank."

I always imagined that achieving a transition into or out of Link is more like meditation than falling asleep. Maybe once you're in it's like being sleep, but I always figured it's something you can do voluntarily.

Speaking of which, I'm impressed that Jake was able to get back into Link when he woke up during the Quaritch fight. Imagine trying to force your mind to "go blank" when you know there's a breach, you can hear the alarm blaring, and you can feel yourself suffocating. Dayum.
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You came back
How do you make up after you've done the unforgivable? Jake and Neytiri have a conversation in the wake of Hometree's destruction, during their first real moment alone following his return as Toruk Makto.

The Last Train Home
Fourteen years after the war, a lone spaceship appears in the sky. The former members of the Avatar program watch its approach expecting the worst, fearing for their adopted home. Then the ship lands. And suddenly, nothing makes sense anymore.

Five seconds too late
This is a different kind of Jake/Neytiri romance, the story that would've unfolded had she been delayed for just five seconds while trying to reach him following the fight with Quaritch.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Banefull View Post
In fact, one of the more interesting questions I've pondered about is What happens if you want to end a link but can't fall asleep? (insomnia, too much coffee, etc) Are you just stuck?

Any thoughts?
that's what i've wanted to know for a long time, i just came to a conclusion that you close your eyes and try to relax and the person supervising will pick up some sort of drop in brain activity on the screen, they will then terminate the link safely and you awake in your chamber
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:53 AM
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Hmm, good question. I kinda feel like the machine 'catches' the driver's mind and pulls it to the link. Which could explain Grace's advice, because he doesn't know what the 'catch' feels like (also, he's just been shut inside something that looks like a coffin with no training - relaxing and not thinking is as good advice as any). By the time of the battle, he's able to feel the 'catch' or 'hook' well enough that, as long as the machine is still running, he can force his mind back over the link into his avatar.
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:21 PM
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Remember when Grace told Jake about the school ? She said : "That kind of pain..." which implies the pain her Na'vi character feels like when all that happen "...reaches back, through the link" means that you are entirely connected to the Na'vi body and mind. You get killed there, you die in the "dream machine" too, because body can't live without the mind. Remember also when Norm was hit by the bullets in the humerus, he got out of the link and felt the pain then started to breathe hard.

During the fight with Quaritch, Jake had a moment of awakening inside the link because the air pressure dropped (after Q hits and breaks the window of the camp wagon) and disturbed his mind actions. Probably being still asleep and wondering what's the matter, he decided to go back and stay up to fight against Q.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsawke`Iheyu View Post
Remember when Grace told Jake about the school ? She said : "That kind of pain..." which implies the pain her Na'vi character feels like when all that happen "...reaches back, through the link" means that you are entirely connected to the Na'vi body and mind. You get killed there, you die in the "dream machine" too, because body can't live without the mind. Remember also when Norm was hit by the bullets in the humerus, he got out of the link and felt the pain then started to breathe hard.

Avatar=/= the Matrix. If you combine the deleted, unfinfished scenes with the origianl scriptment - Avatars can be killed, the driver is physical fine. Hegner in the original scriptment was also crazy, true, but both were alive.

I took Grace's comment to mean what you experience in-link will follow you, and she was talking about EMOTIONAL pain, not physical. I also took Norm to be all gaspy to mean that his mind was still remembering the massive physical pain he'd just experienced, even though there was nothing wrong with his human body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsawke`Iheyu View Post
During the fight with Quaritch, Jake had a moment of awakening inside the link because the air pressure dropped (after Q hits and breaks the window of the camp wagon) and disturbed his mind actions. Probably being still asleep and wondering what's the matter, he decided to go back and stay up to fight against Q.
...hmm, not how I read it - I thought Jake was fully aware of what was going on.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:07 PM
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It really doesn't seem like sleep with how Jake was reacting.
When the user wants to end the link, I would imagine it is conscious - relax and sort of switch your mind to your human body, the link is probably set up to detect that and shut down on that event.

As for pain, I took grace's comment to mean BOTH, with Norm's reaction with his avatar's injury showing physical pain is certainly possible, and emotional pain is obvious enough.

In non-canon (the script and game) then an avatar dying doesn't affect the driver, and I honestly don't see how it ever would be any different as the hardware of the brain is still the human in the link. Unless they died from extreme pain or something (which I guess might be possible), it would just be very painful but they would survive. It doesn't matter what a film that has nothing at all to with Avatar (and is far softer scifi anyway) does.
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashen Key View Post
Avatar=/= the Matrix. If you combine the deleted, unfinfished scenes with the origianl scriptment - Avatars can be killed, the driver is physical fine. Hegner in the original scriptment was also crazy, true, but both were alive.

I took Grace's comment to mean what you experience in-link will follow you, and she was talking about EMOTIONAL pain, not physical. I also took Norm to be all gaspy to mean that his mind was still remembering the massive physical pain he'd just experienced, even though there was nothing wrong with his human body.

...hmm, not how I read it - I thought Jake was fully aware of what was going on.
Yes, I know Grace felt an emotional pain, meaning that Grace involved her entire spirit inside that school. It would be impossible for the human body inside the machine to show physical wounds after they get in the outside world. It's only the human mind and soul that's connected to the avatar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
It really doesn't seem like sleep with how Jake was reacting.
When the user wants to end the link, I would imagine it is conscious - relax and sort of switch your mind to your human body, the link is probably set up to detect that and shut down on that event.

As for pain, I took grace's comment to mean BOTH, with Norm's reaction with his avatar's injury showing physical pain is certainly possible, and emotional pain is obvious enough.

In non-canon (the script and game) then an avatar dying doesn't affect the driver, and I honestly don't see how it ever would be any different as the hardware of the brain is still the human in the link. Unless they died from extreme pain or something (which I guess might be possible), it would just be very painful but they would survive. It doesn't matter what a film that has nothing at all to with Avatar (and is far softer scifi anyway) does.
In Matrix, after the training fight with Morpheus inside the dojo, Neo is bleeding. He is bleeding in the real world too. Trinity dies in the Matrix and in reality too after being killed by the sentinels. In Avatar, Trinity and all the member of the ship that died in Matrix would still be alive.
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:40 AM
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It's impossible to get physically injured, but you can still feel the physical pain at the moment of injury. Based on that, you don't die (I agree with Tsawke`Iheyu above) unless, as I said above, there is enough pain to actually kill you from that (supposedly can happen).
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