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Old 08-30-2014, 02:54 AM
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Default logical starting point for the sequels

i honestly don't know where the sequels could go, how they'd get there; that's jc's job to bring us to destination. but to me, logic dictates where everything should start, what the background/context should be, if the sequels are to make sense.

---

firstly, humans weren't in polyphemus's system just for the money. they were there because *they had to*, as earth's resources have been depleted and its ecosystem bulldozed out of existence. by then, the needs of human civilisation largely exceeded what earth can provide. so pandora and the other moons of polyphemus were and are viewed as key our civilisation's continuity, because they have resources that are needed back on earth. this point was not emphasized enough in the original film.

the events that lead to the end of "business as usual" on pandora, created a storm on almost all levels back on earth. industrially, technologically, financially, socio-politically, philosophical and even on the religious side of things. global reactions range from one extreme to the other. no one was left indifferent.

there are those who would hold the position that humans killed mother earth and had no business repeating the same mistakes elsewhere. that we were acting like savages, killing the indigenous population of another world because we could.

at the other end of the spectrum of reactions, you'd basically hear "how dare they, these savages are keeping us from what's ours! they murdered our sons who were just defending themselves!". calls to bring the "traitors" back on earth for trial are heard.

after possibly years of acrimonious debates, an expedition ends up being sent back to the moons of the gas giant and find ways to restart acquisition of much needed resources. with great fanfare, vows are made that things will be different this time, that previous mistakes won't be repeated, that these other worlds won't be destroyed like earth was. parker selfridge manages to be part of the expedition, assigned with getting things going again. he wants to clean up his record, as he is obsessed with not ending up on the wrong side of history -- and about re-ingratiating himself with the authorities & other corporate higher-ups. [his desire to end up being "the good guy", at least in appearance, could be a significant plot device.]

---

back on pandora, what was essentially the whole science team did not return to earth, as they knew the powers that be would have taken a very dim view of their actions in aid of the na'vi. any chance of normal life after that was remote at best. when the scientists took action, they was "no going back", as they knew they were condemned to essentially no future on a dying world. it was not as much as a collective decision as the simple fact that they had no choice but to stay if they wanted any chance of normalcy.

even if meant a few changes in their routine.

as staying human on pandora was not a realistic option, they managed to grow themselves new "avatar" bodies. like jake, all of them shed their human shells.

whilst, in appearance, the na'vi did not change their ways, the ex-humans had a significant impact on them. they gained knowledge and found ways to better their lives without impacting their world. though the biggest impact have been, as silly as it looks at first glance, visible changes to the morphology of the na'vi. all offsprings of the ex-humans (who all mated with the locals (*)) end up with five fingers... but their feet say the same. turns out the extra fingers are an improvement after all [could be another plot device].

from their new knowledge, the na'vi realise the humans will be back at some point. satellites orbiting pandora are turned outwards, as part of an early warning system, to be able to see the sky people coming. as they realise their usual weapons don't always cut it facing humans, the na'vi learn how to use what was left behind. just in case.

they also, over time, cleaned up the mess created by humans:
* the mining operation was dismantled, with all machinery brought back to hell's gate;
* like it is still done in ex battle theatres all over the world, leftover weapons, munitions and the rest were collected as they were found and either disposed of or stored away if it could be re-used to defend pandora.
* etc.

---

so the movie could start, after setting up the context, with the humans arriving around pandora, as it is the world they know best of all the moons of polyphemus. the expedition is composed of three ships, because it is assumed everything might need to be built up again, from zero. this is clearly a "hail mary" on humanity's behalf, a last ditch effort to get what it needs to continue.

whilst they are planning to go on exploring the other moons of the gas giant from the orbit of pandora, the leaders of said expedition decide to try contacting the na'vi.

...where the film could go from that point, i'd leave that with jc & his crew.

though i have to ask: how would the humans react to the developments on pandora that occurred during their absence? how would they react to the concept of a semi-sentient _planet_ (as depicted in "project 880")?



(*) this would raise disturbing questions about free will and all that, but turns out eywa sort of played matchmaker and nudged all involved into mixed unions to spread that human dna amongst the na'vi. furthermore, and as unsettling as it might be, "copies" of selected knowledge and memories from the humans was possibly taken by eywa as they were transferred into their na'vi bodies. this could have been distilled back into the population in some fashion -- think about trinity learning to fly a bell 212 helicopter in the matrix... or neo learning kung-fu.
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Old 08-30-2014, 12:10 PM
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I think that stuff seems cool but unlikely.
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:20 AM
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@moco loco: if you mean that it's (far) too late to give ideas to jc, i agree with you. i wish i'd typed this much earlier.

i wonder if there were any, huh, fan initiatives to collect & vote on suggestions/advice for the sequels since 2009.

to me, exploring the status of earth as it stands in the 22nd century would be very interesting: how does it affect earth's population to live on a world essentially without any wildlife anymore, with essentially no untouched/unbuilt spaces left? what would be the social impacts of being on a dying world? are humans even aware how dire humanity's situation is?

also, the idea of a sentient planet (eywa) similar to what was presented in "project 880", alluded to in the film and discussed in these forums could open one heck of a can of worms, script-wise. how would the über-religious people back on earth (or those part
of the expedition) react to the reality of a "living god", that acted on jake's warning before battle? compare this to earth divinities that, well, are a bit short on manifestations of their own existence...

and assuming, for argument's sake, that jc actually sets up the sequels' initial background & context as i wrote it at the top of this thread. the transfer of the essence of all members of the ex-science team into their newly grown hybrid bodies could be viewed
that an individual's physical body is just a shell, and that we are more than that. in that case, how would humans react to this?

jc would not have time to make a profound dissertation on the nature of being, given the time limits when making a film, but the concept could be touched in the sequels. maybe it could become one of the main plot devices that keep the story going. that's the sort of ideas that make for great sci-fi.
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:25 AM
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Although there are certain things I am not allowed to tell you () this is not one of them: I think it's vitally important for the stability of the franchise that both of Eywa's abilities don't become common knowledge back on Earth simply because, if they do, the story logically becomes about humans attempting to steal near-posthuman technology and ignoring the Na'vi.

(Also, it opens Eywa up to being covertly manipulated as well as outright attacked - we're better at information technology than the Na'vi are.)

The additional problem is that if the humans come back looking for Unobtanium, they'll get it. They won't fall for the same trick again, and if they use their equipment effectively, they can stomp over any firepower the Na'vi or Eywa can bring against them.
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:55 AM
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(i am assuming for conversation's sake that the contextual setup i wrote earlier has been written into the sequels.)

getting booted off pandora should have made humans realise that there was/is more going on than they thought, that that they don't know & understand that world after all. even after so many years on it -- which should add insult to injury. i cannot fathom how the shock resulting from the events on pandora could not have taken humanity's arrogance down a few notch. what happened was so spectacular and unforeseen that it would be very hard for anyone on earth to view it in earth/human terms & scale. selfridge could not, for example, keep on dismissing grace's description of the pandoran from eco-system.

subsequent and extensive post-mortems of the events on pandora should make humans realise that eywa was more than just "voodoo mumbo-jumbo". furthermore, upon their return to the moons of polyphemus and re-establishing contact with the na'vi, how could humans be oblivious to eywa's involvement in the transfer of the essence of all the ex-humans into new na'vi bodies? maybe they might now be fully aware of everything that happened, but humans would at least understand something's happening that they don't understand and can't easily dismiss.

and even if the rda people become aware of the nature & capabilities of eywa, who's to say they would think they know everything about it/her? humanity's talent to display incredible stupidity should not be minimized, though i'd say that logically, humans might be more prudent this time because they would be keeping in mind the expression "a little knowledge is dangerous", remembering that the last time they thought they understood the world they were on, they got their a**es handed back to them on a platter.

i am sure eywa (and the na'vi) would have learned from the ex-humans and prepared for, well, cyber-warfare, amongst other things. any level of sentience operating at that level (talking about eywa, here) must be able to learn and adapt, especially in the face of the potential threat humans pose. and in return, humans would be foolish to not consider they are facing an entity that must have learned about them and their technology.

by the way, who says that eywa is just the sentience inherent to the pandoran ecosystem? what if the eywa we think we know ends up being the tip of the proverbial iceberg?

i would say everything comes back to 22nd century humanity getting an "attitude adjustment"; that it mostly realised that it better be more cautious from that point on and that it cannot always do as it pleases. i cannot see it using the "use a bigger hammer this time" approach, especially after years of debate back on earth. i believe they will try to locate other sources of unobtanium, since pandora might be viewed as "too much trouble" to use as a source and thusly would only be "the last option". why would this mineral be present only on one of polyphemus' moons?

lastly, seeing humans trying to "steal near-posthuman technology and ignoring the Na'vi" would be improbable if you consider the background/context i've typed earlier. whilst such a turn of events could be written in the sequels, i think it is more probable we might see a willingness by some to take revenge on the ex-humans and their inner-circle (can't think of a better expression), like bringing them to trial for "treason".
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:51 AM
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That seems very personal vendetta ish, and I just think it would be an unlikely direction for the story to go, in the universe itself and as a movie.
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:57 PM
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that *some* humans might harbour a grudge against the (now) ex-humans, esp. jake, would only be one of the various reactions that were sparked back on earth after the rda got booted off pandora. whilst i think humanity would have had years of acrimonious debates re. its behaviour on pandora, with the majority getting an "attitude adjustment" as a result, there would still be a minority who would still "not get it" and keep the same mind-set they had before the events of the original film.

if you are responsible with destroying your world's ecosystem and have no qualms about it because the size of your bank account trumps everything else in your mind, you won't mind doing the same on another world because it will add to said bank account. you will see anyone trying to prevent that as an enemy and a criminal, no matter what others will say.

not to see anyone wanting "justice" for getting unobtanium "stolen" from them (similar to the schoolyard bully not accepting his target fighting back?), would be illogical. it would just be one of many "complication" that would rear its head up during the film and prevent the story from ending within two hours. like i said, reactions back on earth would have varied from one extreme to another; part of the background that underlies the sequels would/should be how humans would have dealt with, well, getting a black eye. along with showing their reaction to the ex-science team (and jake) having shed their human shells.

i think we barely scratched the surface of pandora (no pun intended), nor have we explored the realities of the other worlds of polyphemus. there is still a lot that we don't know, that jc & crew haven't thought about yet. there is still much stuff there to fill up all the sequels. what i just described is the human part of the overall story, which will have both good and bad sides to it. and, logically, should include some infighting, as humans reactions & attitudes would be varied and sometimes verging on the extreme.

lastly and let's not forget, there's also how the ex-humans deal with, well, no longer being human. whilst none of them would have regrets about becoming something else (*), it would/should be something to look at. or is it a non-issue, as they would end up thinking "Everything is backwards now, like out there is the true world, and in here is the dream" as jake said in the original film? maybe the only question to be explored would be how they would react to humans after all this time.



(*) they would have had ample time to make their decision; but again, eywa would have nudged them sufficiently to raise, at least for us spectators, questions of self-determination and free will.
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:42 PM
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I feel the most logical starting point for the next film is back on Earth a few years after the end of the first movie to remind us of what Jake left behind. Then gradually get back to Pandora.

Note: Zoe was quoted in an interview that the story of the sequels will be "very emotional." The cast reportedly got "choked up" when they learned about what direction the story would go in. So naturally I'm concerned for Neytiri's safety. I was nervous during the scene when she got shot down and Seze was killed. I couldn't watch a movie that she dies in.
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Old 09-04-2015, 05:27 PM
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^I have wondered about that too. I am not sure if I could bear to watch that either. I have also wondered about the safety and/or the overall wellbeing of other characters, and it doesn't bring a lot of comfort.

However, I tend to not think about the "what ifs" and the "what could be's" because I think when we wrap ourselves up into these things and we subscribe ourselves to certain possibilities, and then they don't come true in the sequels, then that only serves to set one up for disappointment. I tend to not think about such things, because it's not my story to tell. I'd rather go into the sequels with a clean slate as to what could be. I want the movie to unfold and come to me without a set of predetermined parameters. Essentially, I want to afford myself the element of surprise.

Last edited by True Love For Neytiri; 09-04-2015 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 09-05-2015, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Love For Neytiri View Post
I'd rather go into the sequels with a clean slate as to what could be. I want the movie to unfold and come to me without a set of predetermined parameters. Essentially, I want to afford myself the element of surprise.
This is why I hardly watch trailers these days!
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:16 PM
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I believe the story will continue, with new stuggles and new problems, with references to some of the problems on Earth.
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