Exactly. Can you fight through the obstacles that life throws at you, or will you worship them and let them take control of your life? Sempu, I'll make the 90,000th reference to The Power of Full Engagement (because it's that good of a book): Stress is a good thing, not a bad thing, STRESS IS A GOOD THING. It makes you stronger and the sooner you overcome it, the more aptly you can handle anything to come.

Think about it this way: We were given a glimpse of something spectacular as Sempu has said, if you can overcome this glimpse without obsessing over it or using it as a crutch for too much time, then you've accomplished an incredible feat. What does a demotion or a bad grade on a test compare to that? It doesn't, and because of this, all of us on here are much, much more apt to persevere for the rest of our lives. With that said, bringing Pandora to Earth should not be the objective here, Pandora is amazing and everything, but it's nowhere near where we as a society could push the limits of perfection.

So here's where I challenge everyone here: how about instead of wasting time talking about what's wrong with our planet and what we've done to destroy it, we talk about ways in which we can fix it. (Maybe that's why it's not happening in IRL, everyone likes to complain *shocked face*) Easy to say, but I still haven't seen it happen. Here's the thing, WE PERSONALLY have done nothing wrong to send our society farther from perfection than we desire, that is a result of society from many generations past to now. So while we're here, why not fulfill potential? And it starts from the little things. Here's a positive: this website is an example of a "little thing". This current discussion as I'm reading it doesn't belong in "Ways to cope with the depression of the dream of Pandora being intangible." Anyone up for making a thread like "Ways we can improve society without any thought of Pandora"? That would be a huge step in a positive direction away from depression and sadness, and that's really the way you get out of a depression if you're still in one. I'm all for leaving this thread for people that need help and such, but discussion of this scale shouldn't really be here unless it pertains to still being depressed. (Which if we continue would be like beating a dead horse...we have two websites now filled with an incredible amount of information that could be put into like a 9 volume "bible" of how to live your life :) )

So, one more time: it doesn't really matter what we expect from life, but rather what life expects from us. Anyone here up for the challenge? I sure as hell am, bring it on.

Well, you can have tsaheylu if you've got an open mind spiritually, the same with Eywa. Hang gliders can be considered Earth Ikran (now, at least, there used to be pterosaurs:shock:). Some of the amazing mountains on Earth do do a pretty decent job of giving some of the flying mountains a run for their money. And if I can't have polyphemus, an arm of the milky way, trillions of stars, and one bright little moon will do.

Isn't it incredibly sad? That's why I want out so much. Maybe it's because we've become a world run by lawyers, or maybe it's the good ol' corrupt politicians at it again, or maybe it's because we've simply become weaklings, but the way the world has become such a nanny state really is sad. I mean dammit kids used to have guns, and toys where they poured liquid metal, now parents won't even let their kids go to the park anymore.:facepalm: Or for adults. Take a look at this very Ikran-like device. Guess what? Banned. Plus all the bureaucratic red-tape one has to go through to do something like hang glide. It's not even fun things, either, anymore, that are feeling the restrictive mindset of the modern world. Now it's basic civil liberties. Take a look at London, and the people want even MORE cameras.:facepalm: I'm sure all the little fascists in the world are just salivating right now, at the thought of how much power they could gain from exploiting people's fears like this. And the funny thing is that people often feel that these measures are being done to fight fascism. Well, they're in for a big surprise...:rolleyes: I shudder to think of what it would take to knock people out of this ether.

Besides community, I think that's another thing I want. To live in a world not covered in bubble-wrap. To actually be able to do the things I want, on my own terms. To be able to run, to swim, to climb, to fly, when I want, where I want. Without some overlooming power telling me not to. Like my status says, is freedom really too much to ask for? Is the freedom that humans once had really too much to ask for? To live the only life I'll ever have on this planet as I see fit? Beholden to no man above me?

So true. Society is simultaneously both too small and too large. On one end, one has the nuclear family (if one is even lucky enough to have one), which is too small to fulfill everyone's natural needs for a large, but at the same time, loving community. On the other hand, one has society outside the home, which is large, but not loving. It is impersonal, with it's main focus being economics. I mean, isn't most of our time outside the home spent on work? I think that's the reason everything is so split into factions these days - political parties, churches, clubs, etc. They are all attempts at fulfilling people's longings for a tribal society, where larger groups of people can come together over something that does not involve business or work.

That's what I think the future needs. Techno-tribes. A tribal societal structure, but one that can still advance scientifically. Where the kind of love one finds in a nuclear family isn't restricted to such a small group. I think many of the old villages in Italy are a good example of something like this.

TMIB - Wait, what's wrong with going through life with Pandora in one's heart? For the people here has been a magnificent source of inspiration, the depression is just a phase. It strikes the heart and soul in ways that something hasn't done in a long time, why not use it as a vision for change? Powerful works of art have done it in the past, why not again with Avatar?

Oh, and can you use the "hamburgers" Winnfield as your avatar? The one you've got now scares the crap outta me. :P

Nothing is wrong with it, you misunderstood what I said. Having Pandora forever in your heart is fine, "obsessing over it or using it as a crutch for too much time" is counter-productive. My whole point was that instead of spending time dwelling in this specific thread over things we've gotten over, why not use what we've learned from it as a "vision of change" like you said? I'm not seeing that. I'm saying if most of us have gotten over PAD, why not move on to discussing ways in which we can improve ourselves/improve the world. That isn't happening, and that is the whole point of my post. Your post^ was a better shift away from what I'm talking about. Although you did do quite a bit of complaining (:)), at least you offered a solution for a better society: an idea, better than reading a post only about how much society sucks right now. But here's really my point: was there anything in your post that if you read would suggest it belongs in "Ways to cope with the depression of the dream of Pandora being intangible"? I'd say it belongs in a new thread, a new thread that is more upbeat and a shift of tempo from the one we're in.

We've beaten this thread to death for months now, time to move forward. <---Was that more clear? Lol

And you should be scared of the picture, it's Jules MothaFFin Winnfield!! Jk, I'll change it soon.

Well this thread was pretty dormant for a while until these last few weeks. Our last person with full PAD was...months ago. Ever since then it's just been sporadic existential discussion every few weeks for a few posts. This really isn't the main thread anymore, just like on AF. The best discussion occurs on the rest of the forum. Plenty of ideas, too. :)

Here guys:
http://www.tree-of-souls.com/general...tml#post104874

Anybody up for moving away from depression and into improvement!?!?!

TM- yeah I know, tryin to get some discussion started, and since some of the new discussion has started on this thread, why not move it to a new one for a more positive outlook?

This reminded me of The 7 Habits. One of the things Covey talks about is the transition and growth between dependence, independence, and eventually interdependence. They come in that order, and one cannot effectively be skipped.

So what you're talking about with the tribes is interdependence. But getting to that point is a process. Everyone starts off as a baby, depending on their parents. And then some people get into independence, standing on your own two feet. (Some tribes have coming-of-age rituals) And following independence, (most people never get this far) is the ability to work as an individual who knows working as a team is more effective.

Is anyone still depressed? I've seen a lot of discussion but very little talk of actually feeling depressed...

I think what some of the members struggle with is "what now?". Avatar offered a perfect life, and many have used that sacred place as a source for inspiration, a centerpiece for a changed heart. But inspiration for what? For some people, its art, some computers and animation, or music, and for myself it's writing. But not everybody has these platforms to fall back to. I think without that focus, it's hard to find joy or passion for everyday life, which builds an empty feeling inside.

I don't think people aren't trying to feeling better. Everyone wants to feel good. But without a focus, that can be difficult. Myself as an example, I think Pandora is perfect. Sometimes I like to build this dream and think about being there. But in the end, I put these dreams in my heart and carry them with me. And now, I'm working to put them in words; I want to reach an audience. I want to bring smiles to people's faces, more so than I want to be happy myself. It's a dream of mine. Pandora is too, but, when I can't have it, I can still have one of my dreams. I'm still getting something that I want.

Yes, I think that's a good way of putting it, caveman.

I think that maybe people are still depressed, but the reason for it has changed. Whilst some people still suffer with PAD (I do in part), I think that a lot of it also has to do with wanting to now bring that world to ours, to live the way that they did and to find the truth in life, but there is a general feeling of hopelessness when it comes to such thoughts. Feelings that you'll be destined for lonliness, that the world we have is no longer salvagable, or even worth attempting to save, that we're just one person up against almost 7 billion others that there's insurmountable odds, and so on...

Even perhaps, fear. Not of the world itself, but of what actually living your life on it will mean.

I still long for Pandora... but slowly, i'm finding the love for her sister planet too. It just hurts that I can't spend time - maybe even the rest of my life - in that love.

All of this hunger says to me that there is a revolution possible. It is going on elsewhere, too: several books have recently been published describing the immense benefit of communal living. I've posted about the book "Healthy at 100" as an example.

God or Eywa does not give us deep desires in order to torture us, but to give us a purpose to fulfill in the world. Can you conceive of an Earth where more people in western civilization live in social tribes? I can. Think big. As far away as that goal may be, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Perhaps you are the one to take that step.

I see you. That vision will forever be etched on my soul. I cannot let that tension in me be in vain; I must do something with it.

One person can make a difference, never forget it. If you think you can only make a small difference, then your thoughts are too small, not your ability.

And you are not just one person. Look at all of us here. Think of the power of many.

Taking that one step further: Think about this forum. A bunch of movie-goers from around the world somehow united under the same dream and stuck together like a family. If there's any proof that humanity is searching for unity and a better tomorrow for both people and the environment, its right in front of you.

Depressed? Well - sometimes yes - but you put it right - I keep it as a dream, as a vision and if it comes, the depressing feeling comes from the overwhelming challenge to make anything of that real here. Ok, there is a little bit of "longing for home" attached to me, too. It is not specifically about Pandora though, but it is about a place that I had in my dreams and was represented by Pandora this year. So I cant say it is PAD - and it also is something I got to know exists with non-Avatar fans as well. Dwelling on that lead to me taking a tour into exploring subconscious, dreams and intuition, so it was indeed a good thing to start on this, even if it does cause some melachony for not beeing as tangible.

It can be or it can not be. I know 2 types - one type that makes me do things I like in a fast and efficient manner. And another in which choires drown me that I cannot manage to do, mostly tasks that I dont like to do.
The first one is good, the second one causes heart attacks ;)

Well, I think it is not a totally bad thing to look at the "what is wrong" part first, to be informed, to become passionate and emotionally involved. If you fall in love with the planet and you see the things that are wrong, you are really getting a motivation up to do something. Much more so than if you only act out of reason. But yes - eventually, one has to direct the anger towards action instead of just talking.
Oh and I agree with the "rats tail" that we face. The problems at hand are NOT only caused by us personally. We do so because we were born into it and grew up in it. That should not be an excuse for doing nothing, but we should not feel all to guilty about everything we participated in up to now. Guilt makes things a lot worse as it causes paralysis. And at the same time, it makes no sense to worry daily about using toilet paper and water for showers and gas to cook food. Of course one should be conscious about these things and try to act reasonably, but honestly it is not our fault that these things exist. So we can reduce our own consumerism, reduce our personal impact, but in some way, I think there is the desire to change things beyond that... I am not sure how yet, and I think that is what makes most people look so apathic. One can change the own life relatively easily - use less, consume less, spend less,... even do mor effort and fundamentally change the own life. But we perceive ourselves as helpless in the face of a long established trajectory of this culture...

@Tsyal: Well - while with that flying tube this can happen: YouTube - Kite-Tubing NOSE DIVE!!! - I still think it should be a choice made by each individually to take risks or not. Of course what comes into play then in any society large or small is the interdependance again. If a member of a society behaves in risky ways and may loose the ability to contribute to the society (by dying, becoming disabled or injured) - that society is not accepting of this behaviour easily. In the modern society it may be that kite flying has a risk of people becoming injured heavily, public helath care has to pay for hospital and all of society pays for that risk that one person takes and people start to get angry at that person. In a small tribe, a person who would regularly go kayaking down a dangerous river just for fun would probably cause similar worries because if he breaks bones, people will have to feed him and care for him on their own time. So it is not that easy to combine social interdependence and community with absolute freedom of actions. In modern society this is reflected by rules and banning some things, I dont know reall yhow tribal people would deal with this really - or how to create a good combination. That is what I think is what we need to find as a vision.

On the "little brother": http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/ma...OB-WWLN-t.html - nice, even thge NYT realizes, that 1984 is a pale shadow compared to what is going on now - and it goes on without the need for a big brother even...

And Tsyal, you mentioned Techno-Tribes. That is a concept I had in my head also for a while, but I did not reach a conclusion if it is possible. Maybe it is somehow - I kept insisting that it is, but also that many technologies would be hard or impossible to achieve then. Actually it is part of my criticism against regular Anarchism, that their idea to shed any large institutions would almost require the formationof small self-organized communities which in turn would lead to massive complications to achieve large scale projects like genetic engineering, computer technology, space travel etc. (essentially making any plans to realize shedding large insititutions and governments essentially a "primitivist" vision). It is not impossible, but improbable due to several reasons, I will not go into that now though. Maybe if there is a new thread on that?

Overall - my vision is one of a tribal future - whatever shape this may take. But agin, I will post on that in the new thread ;)

Well put ma tsmukan. I'll always consider Pandora my true home, where I was truly meant to be, and maybe someday, somehow... Anyway, though I'm learning to love my foster home of Earth, too. :)

It's tough for a free spirit that values the freedom of the wild and the freedom to live by one's own right, to live in a world that values conformity, materialism, and one's economic productivity and viability over all else. The problem is that the world today attempts to take 7 billion various shaped pegs, and fit them all into the same hole, have the same role in the world. To go to school, get a job, consume, and die quickly before they become too much of an economic burden. From a purely economic standpoint this system works, because everyone has the same potential for doing work if pushed hard enough by the system. Though, from an existential and spiritual standpoint, this is a horrible system. Why? Because everyone has different expectations from life, different dreams, different capabilities, and they all want to live in a way that maximizes their own personal potential to fulfill their dreams. However, the problem that the world has with this is that in some cases, those lifestyles would counter the economic bottom line of society (like people who want to live in the wild or go off the grid). Which is why modern society is often refered to as the only "real word," and we are taught to believe that life outside of it is a brutish hell (think "Lord of the Flies"). It's that societal push to conform, to instill the belief that as long as we sit down, shut up, and do as we're told, we can find freedom, fulfillment, and love. Though people like you, me, and many others here see this is a load of crap for people who think like we do.

If this is the case, you've got two options.
- Pop the blue pill, give in, and be a good little modern wage slave and consumer, not challenging the system to change, or trying to escape it.

or

- Fight like hell for whatever you feel is worth fighting for, in whatever way you feel like fighting for it. Whether it be within the modern world or without.

US-centric, but can apply to what the rest of the world is facing, too. I posted it once before in another thread months ago, but it seems like a good time to post it again. :)

We Will Have To Fight

I think the Fight Club quote in my sig describes it pretty well, too.:P

Well, primitive people/the Na'vi did lead pretty risky lives. Climbing trees, running, chasing, being chased, riding horses, cliff diving, etc. Indeed sometimes for sport, as well. I'm sure some people ended up getting bumped and bruised along the way, indeed it would be interesting to see how they would deal with it. I'm sure that they were probably more liberal in terms of living dangerously than modern people are, because there was less at risk. If someone did something back then they didn't have the ability to destroy thousands of dollars of public infrastructure or private property in the process. Usually one would either hurt themselves, or if they did damage anything, it could easily be dealt with. With that said I still think that the modern world underestimates people's common sense, and ability to minimize risk to others/property with their actions. Used properly something like the Manta Ray would be perfectly safe. To ban it outright is overkill. All tht is doing is letting sue-happy lawyers push society further into nanny-stateism.


Interesting, and IMO one of the reasons why people need to fight like hell for net neutrality. If something as powerful as the internet allows everyday people to spy on each other this way, I shudder to think about what would happen if a few mega-corporations or the government ended up taking control if it. The internet is basically the last weapon common people have against the ruling class. Much of everything else is controlled by only a few hands (in the US, there are only 6 major news networks left in the mainstream, sounds trustworthy to me:rolleyes:).

YouTube - The Henry Rollins Show - America Is Under Attack

Yeah, it's a pretty complex issue fit for a new thread. Too much to discuss here.

Here's the great part about it: in order to change the world, you start with changing yourself, lead by example and you will most certainly leave an impact. This is my whole point: one minute spent sulking over the paradise you could be in or many other things is a minute you could've been a better person, or a minute you could've left an impact.

I said it in the new thread: Paradise will come soon enough, why not enjoy the time on Earth and leave your impact while you can?

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone or if I'm the only one that feels this way, but doesn't anyone else feel like we've spent enough time talking about depression and loneliness and the crappiness of society?

I still think it's important to discuss the world's ills. Once we contemplate it enough, and deconstruct it enough, we can put some coherent threads of thought together to follow for solutions.

Fair enough...but discussing the world's ills merely for the sake of doing so and not to follow for solutions is still unnecessary in my opinion, we've done enough of that since the creation of both sites.

Well that is the title of this thread :) We can talk about the other stuff elsewhere and leave this one to its own devices.

The problem is humanity.

Humans kill everything they touch. Society is just a method of control.

Ah, but would you say the individuals who have left a positive impact on the face of society kill everything they touch? The ones who fought tooth and nail until their death to make this world a better place for you and me, would you consider them a problem?

You and I have the potential to be the best we can be, don't let it go to waste.

I have to agree to Tsyal here in that looking at the ills and fracked up things about the dominant culture is important. It helps deconstructing the illusion, penetrating the mythology of this system. And in doing so, we can find ways to tell others.

I had an experience once. I talked to a person I came to know a little during a seminar. We talked a bit about our futures. He was very much aimed for earning a lot of money and all the usual goals of society. He bought into all kinds of myths and illusions this culture imposes on people living in it. He believed that Europe is getting greener because we have made our means of production cleaner, that market economy is a great tool to make economy work and so on. I talked to him, giving him my insights, putting down depressing facts about economy, resource geology, environmental science and so on. I used all the "ill things" and the negatives we keep discussing in several threads here. I bashed all kinds of false hopes he came up with and in the end he reached the same conclusions that many of us do. That a sustainable way of life cannot be based on the assumptions this culture makes. Ok, and he was severely depressed by all this, I have to admit, so I definitely did not really cheer him up in that talk, but I think I did a good job deconstructing this society and some of the illusions of civilization for him. And to be able to do this, to give people at least something to think about, a different perspective, one has to KNOW how to deconstruct this culture and that again requires to talk about the ill effects. It requires looking at tar sands mining, mountain top removal, streams that do not reach cities that formed at its shores anymore, about the sixth mass extinction, about mineral and hydrocarbon mining, about civilization diseases and violence and wars. One has to look at the reality and the ugly face of the dominant culture to counteract the persistant illusion people suffer from who only look into the bright light of the nice face of the same culture.

But I do admit - I am a bit of a doom and gloom person. Look at me, I am boasting to have talked a person into loosing his faith into a technologcial utopia ;) - so I probably could use a couple of good and uplifting thoughts, too. So I think the bad things are needed, cannot and should not be forgotten or ignored, but indeed, even more powerful it is, if we show alternatives and better ways.

I once said in reference to a famous quote, that only if people are presented with a cultural vision that looks better, more fulfilling, more fitting and easier to reach than continuing their current way of life, only then people will come towards that new vision, but then they come freely and no forceful revolution is required, no one has to feel sorry, no one has to get the feeling of leaving something good behind or to give something up.

Yeah, that's true, but, once again, look back on how many pages of discussion we've had on multiple websites; I have yet to see any new "complaints" that I hadn't already known or seen in quite a while. I think we've addressed many of the problems of society, and it gets to a point where the negativity becomes crippling. I never said we shouldn't address the problems, but there is a truth in that addressing the problems too often can be bad. Is this something we can agree on?

Facts are just facts; the emotions are what we add to them. Very few people get this principle, because they think it's an argument for self-deception or ignorance or not caring or feeling nothing. The world is the way it is, stuff happens. They're not sad, they're not wonderful, they just are. The sadness or happiness happens inside us.

This one winds people up like no other, mostly because it pierces the veil of ignorance. There are still plenty of times I don't want it to be true, when I'm attached to my story.

The common reaction is, "So what are you saying, I shouldn't feel this way?" No; just that you should realize that the feeling is coming from you, not the event. "The truth shall set you free."

If nothing else, it makes communication and rapport easier. Like the two people who say that "It's hot" "No, it's cold" and then argue about what "it" is when if they just said "I'm hot" "I'm cold" then there'd be no argument and they could move on to finding out that one of them is from Canada and the other one from Mexico :)

Another person woken up! ;)

That is wise indeed. It is funny - it is a bit like the "observer effect" in quantum mythology ;) - But indeed - our experience is what makes us act in a certain way. I love the planet and the natural world and it pains me to see it destroyed. I would like to think, that this is a natural thing, a universal thing, that all people would have that impression, right? But it is not the case. People may see going to the stars as much more important and their emotions are bound to that. I have to say, I have a hard time accepting that, but obviously in debates, these two things dont go together and no compromise can be reached.
Even if the Mexican and the Canadian agree that the temperature depends on their own perception, what are they going to do when something depends on that temperature? Like with destroying the natural world - what would be a good consequence on me saying that it is in dire danger and needs to be freed and saved from the dominant culture and someone saying that there are only some minor losses and it is all worth the advancement of humans and the greater goal to bring life to the universe. Both opinions require different strategies...

Yeah I know what you mean. There is little "new complaints" coming in, but I think there is still some thing or another to be discovered when it comes to forming a picture on how it all connects. Like how does hierarchy, civilization, social stratification, corporations, the state, cities and global trade go together? The thing is, that the whole system is a weird and complex web of connected topics and it is far from easy to remove one without either something else jumping in or the whole thing going down. You cant just abolish the state and hope that corporations will not take over that place. And you cant abolish the economy and global trade without expecting to have a great reduction in technology and material wealth for some people. To get a picture on how things connect to each other is something I like to think about. Ok, and I have to admit, I still want to tell people that never heard about it that Canada is ripping up the land for tar sands oils and the USA is blasting off mountain tops for coal - just to tell people what the hell is going on and that the garden landscapes in their front yard are an illusion fueld by devastation in distant places.

Oh, I'm not arguing that all interpretations or perceptions are equally valid. I'm saying that people confuse subjective interpretations with objective ones. As long as people are arguing, "The world is this way," then the argument rarely rises above the level of "Yes it is" - 'No it isn't," neither side being provable. Once each side owns its subjectivity then they can move on to understanding each other and more progress is possible, such as each side finding out what the other wants and seeing how to reconcile those desires.

My thinking is doubtless is the result of so much exposure to relationship facilitation and team-building sessions. As long as the husband says, "She is a (fill in the blank)" they're stuck in a tug-of-war. Once he says "She did (this) and I felt (that)" then he's taken an important step, and might then even ask her, "So did that mean you (felt this way about me)?" And of course she has to take her own steps.

Ah Sempu - I understand you well. Yeah - that is going into "nonviolent communication" and even a bit into "E-Prime" (a version of english that does not use "to be" :)

Are you referring to the fact that photons almost "know" when we're watching them and behave differently than they "should"? If so, this is a great analogy, lol.

A paper written with minimal "be" verbs is a strong paper indeed. I understand your antics well, AuroraGlacialis. LOL.

A relative of mine who shall remain nameless provides a good example. She persistently says about various events in the news, "That's so sad/tragic/depressing." Futile to try pointing out that it isn't sad, but she is. After all, she has very good reasons for her statements; am I arguing that she should be happy about someone being raped or a war somewhere?

She uses these things in the news to depress herself because a good person would feel bad about those things, and so it reinforces her self-image by feeling bad about them. After all, that's what good people do, right?

But what a trap. Because she doesn't have enough self-esteem, she constantly seeks things in the headlines to feel bad about so she can reinforce the image of herself as a good person. And today's news media is only too happy to oblige.

So what's the alternative? Should a good person not feel bad when bad things happen? Well, some of it is only inevitable. But it's more important than ever then to be selective in what you get from the news. And even more so to have enough self-esteem that you don't have to sacrifice good feelings in order to feel that you're a good person.

What gets lost in all the discussion about how to feel is what to do. Feeling powerless to do enough to change the world, my relative sees feeling bad as the next best thing. Of course, she can't change everything she'd like to. But she could change more if she weren't feeling so bad. After all, if you're gasping on the sidewalk from a heart attack, would you rather be attended by someone who sat there and wailed about how tragic it was for a such a fine young person to be cut down in their prime or someone who started CPR?

Couldn't have said it better myself...all too often I see this same thing you described happen. The most common is when someone dies, and a person that didn't know them at all acts completely sad/heartbroken. It's great to feel bad for someone dying, but c'mon, it's really obvious when you're just trying to be what I call a "chief mourner". I suppose when someone close to you dies, you absolutely cannot relate with these "fake exhibitions"... I'm really glad you brought this up though, it's a valid point and a good post!

You're absolutely right about the media; one reason I don't watch mainstream news: I don't like hearing about death and destruction for hours at a time :-/

Sempu that is an interesting point. It reminds me of how acts of selflessness can be from selfish intent. For example, when people volunteer because it makes them feel better. Although, I think in most cases people do build a genuineness to their actions - when they may go through great pains to help another, even if personal awards don't follow. But alternatives is an interesting topic. I've thought about this before with no real conclusion.

I'm gettig all kinds of confusing messages off this thread now...

We should ignore what goes on around the world, we shouldn't feel bad about bad events, you shouldn't feel good about volunteering...

Perhaps i'm getting this completely wrong, (and I probably am) but it seems like you're saying "Go ahead, do good and enjoy life, provided you don't feel good about enjoying it and doing good."

No, the point was if you are going to volunteer and do good things, do it for others, not solely to convince yourself that you're a good person. And the point about the news was that mainstream news on TV likes to twist stories for emotional appeal: something we learn about in advertising classes, if you've ever taken one.

Well I can't honestly say that I have ever taken an advertising class, but yes I do understand that virtually every consumable is engineered to make you feel depressed, self-concious, sub-par and all that, so that you go out and try to fill that unfillable hole with what they tell you to, what they want you to...

Anyway, I digress...

What I do ask though, is this... What if volunteering is something you feel you need to do in order to make yourself feel like you've done something good, to make you feel like you have some kind of purpose, to make you feel good about living life, instead of wasting it on the meaningless pursuit of money an posessions... Is that a bad thing? I mean, you're feeling better in yourself about it, following your own path and doing good to the world and it's people.
I don't see how that could be non-beneficial to anyone.

I never said that was not beneficial! Of course that would be good for everyone involved. I'm sorry if I'm being confusing. I was just pointing out the paradox of charity.

This winter I plan on helping at a shelter or something. But I realize how doing that is more for improving myself rather than helping people. I don't really know if there is an alternative. I guess genuinely caring for the people would be ideal, and that's what I hope to achieve eventually.

Don't worry, it's probably me being confused more than you doing the confusing, so to speak...

I understand what you're saying now, and yes, unfortunately (especially if you decide to volunteer abroad and help the parts that are needed just as much, perhaps even moreso) it would be extremely difficult to build up a relationship with the people you wish to help - unless you somehow become to live with them - which is extremely unlikely. That's not to say you don't have to, or won't care at the time, but what other way is there other than that, really?

Temporarily is the only viable way.

Yeah, unless you're Matt Damon and have loads of money to support your philanthropy, temporary work is usually the most viable way to help others. It's still good work though.

The point I was making got a little distorted. The point was, don't make yourself feel bad in order to satisfy a self image that requires you to feel bad in order to be a good person. There are enough times when feeling bad will occur naturally without seeking them out.

And volunteer all you want! If I'm the homeless person or animal or whatever that gets helped by your volunteering, you think I care why you're doing it? The benefit you get from volunteering will be greater if you don't have an strings attached to the experience, but aside from that, I can't think of a catch at the moment.

Haha - this got really philosophical now. I gues as I understand it, the point was that however an individual feels about something depends highly on the individual and not merely on the situation. Situation influences obviously the personal perception but they can differ. So you can feel good about your charity work and that is your true motivation and another person profits from that work and feels good, too. Thats a win-win. Every motivation to do anything is based on feeling better by it, isn't it? Doing anything without feeling in some way better by doing so would be perceived as depressing, opressive and negative to a degree (this includes jobs that dont make you happy).
Of course doing charity to feel better and actually making things worse would be quite a stupid thing, but I guess that happens a lot, too.

it being the same time of year that i saw avatar last year, kinda feel like the depression is coming back a little. and i miss going to see it in imax everyday :(. however the collectors dvd does help a little.

Definitely... I just find it harder to bring myself 'back' afterwards now though. In a way, it's a good thing too.