Why is it that the question is usually placed in this kind of context. Can't we have some kind of God and evolution? I just don't see why it has to be black or white, one or the other.

I am not trying to push anything on anyone, but for those dismayed about "conventional" religions take a look at Universal Unitarianism. It seems pretty much aligned with these forums. http://www.uua.org/

I don't believe in God. Funnily enough, I believe in Eywa and Evolution.

I see a general problem here.

First of all is the definition for "god". Without an explaning definition no discussion is possible.

Second: The view on "religion". Religion is to see with the whole construct of the time, it is connected in. The free view we have now is a modern view. It is only possible because we divided church and politics a few centuries ago.
You all just forget about the fact, that politics, religion, society and people weren't divided in the past.
So you can't say "The church did bad things in the past." It didn't. The PEOPLE did bad things because of politics and power. And the church was one of the instruments. But that is not something you are supposed to look at separated.


I'm sorry, when i interrupt this discussion with that, but i study EXACT these topics.
And i don't like it if complex things are thrown out of their context and simplified to a small lie.

Placebo is a very real effect and not fully understood, and the thing about it is, that the mind can influence the rest of your body. It's not as simple as such of course, but the statistic probability of getting better is usually slightly higher for those with more optimistic views for example.

Still it's only a part of the process of getting better, because people don't just survive cancer or such simply by sheer strong will. The positive spin usually always increases the odds, but it's the physical treatment that eventually makes one better.

And why do you think emotions aren't quantifiable? We have emotions for a reason, even if we don't know what the cause of a certain emotion is. The issue is just too complex to put into words without any deeper understanding of psychology, but we can at times pinpoint the cause for certain emotions, and from that we can observe the effects happening inside our brain.

As for the example as to how describe emotions to someone who can't experience them or doesn't know anything about them. It's the same as telling a blind man how beautiful the sunset is, you can describe it in some ways sure, but eventually it's never the same. This is also due to the fact that even if the man wouldn't be blind, he'd still percieve the sunset quite differently than you would for example, based on his personal life experience.

Of course we can't describe emotions correctly in just words, because that's just how WE feel them. I was implying to the point how the chemistry that goes about in our brain makes us feel that way usually is pretty much same for all those, whose brains are pretty much in standard working order.

And lastly about the Teapot Atheism, you did watch the YouTube video that I linked in my post? I mean what is there not to know about such a simple example? And there really isn't anythign to discuss either, since the idea itself is pretty self explanatory and leaves no room for ambiguity.

Religion is an excuse for people to do what they would anyway, not the cause. A tyrant will always find a pretext for his own tyranny. I get very irked when people make that mistake. Because if anyone followed their religion well, they wouldn't be causing problems.

As you may have guessed, I'm religious. I'm a Protestant.

Very well said. Thank you Eon.

I am an agnostic, so i dont pretend to know one way or the other. as far as faith goes..... i'm a scientist, you don't get too far in my field having 'faith' in things, everything comes down to analysis. thats how i live my life.

is it empty? i dont have anything to compare it to, but it feels full. Do i know where I am going when I die? no. but all i know is that when I do die, hopefully years from now, I will be extremely tired and will be ready to rest and give myself back.

Through my studies there seems to be something that... well, makes the universe exist 'in equilibrium', but i am not inclined to call it god.

EDIT: i was brought up Irish Catholic, hmmm.... maybe thats why I am agnostic? haha (no priest jokes)

NO. Forgive my anger, but hold your tongue when you know nothing of it.

Jihad means struggle, not war. Only AL QAEDA INTERPRETS IT OTHERWISE.

If you open the Qur'an, you will find instructions to allow everyone their beliefs, give to charity, and promote peace. One verse reads "there is no compulsion in religion." Another states that if God wanted everyone to believe the same thing, he'd make us himself, therefore its not man's place to force others.

Yet everyone and his brother who knows nothing insists on being the expect and fueling Islamophobia. SO STOP IT.


Islam has just been as cruel on it's people as every other worldreligion , religion causes people to stupidicly stick to their beliefs and trying to force them on others , that's like 2 unstoppable forces colliding , they won't change their minds , everyone thinks his or hers is better , which causes conflicts like they have been fought since thousands of years , war caused through religion is the worst plague mankind has succumbed to since it's existance , it has caused more conflicts and taken more lifes than anything else .

The qur'an tells people to cut of thiefs hands and other things I can't quite remember anymore , so please don't try to portray islam as what it simply is not , I'm not against muslims , actually I don't care about peoples beliefs , but religion is and that's a undoubtable fact used for bad purposes , if people would actually start living religion , and what they praise for instead of being hypocrits and doing the exact opposite of it , religion would be a good thing , but it should be voluntarily , everybody has the right to choose what he believes or not , religion is ok , as long as it's not forced upon people , if people think they can find their wellbeing in religion , that's ok and they can go with that IMO , but please don't try to be like "Hey,you are wrong , my religion is better than yours".

Accept other peoples beliefs as long as they don't question others freedom .

Now it's my turn to thank you, Shatner. Thanks.

Not a problem.

Apollo, I have to say that your view of Islam is very tainted by media fanatacism, as far as I can see. It is a MINORITY that believe and take the Qu'ran literally. These are called fanatics and can be found on every religion (just look at the Klu Klux Clan). You have not got a fair view of the Muslim religion and I hate to say it but THIS is where ignorance prevails. The majority of the West believes that Muslims are all suicide bombers and this just isn't true. I hope you will do some research on this.

But please remember the original question

I have a book recommendation for you. This one was written by a professor at my university who I greatly respect.

http://www.amazon.com/Who-Speaks-Isl...8860039&sr=1-1

Professor Esposito is probably the leading expert on Islam in the US.